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Amethyst500
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Amethyst500 Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:57 am
Hello Everyone
I've been reading your comments on the Forum for some time, although it was hard to work out where to find those relating to the main programme, and it's been good to hear the views of people who know about dancing, of which I know nothing. I've taken the plunge to join so that I could ask some basic questions, and I apologise in advance for my ignorance.
When I was young, I watched Come Dancing occasionally, but couldn't relate to the contestants at all, as I had no knowledge base and also because it seemed staid and starchy and emotionally uninvolving. When SCD started, I avoided it for years as I thought I wouldn't be interested in it, and also thought it involved voting people out, rather than in, which seems to me an unpleasant concept.
I started watching in 2009 when Chris Hollins was a contestant, as I liked him, and quickly became enthusiastic about it (although in the end I was voting for Ricky Whittle and Natalie Lowe as I enjoyed their dances so much). I couldn't really follow the technicalities of the dancing and still can't very well, particularly as I find the costumes and music are often distracting and the camera angles often cut off the feet, but I go by the overall appearance, and whether the celebrities seem to move as well as the professionals.
On this uneducated basis, I'm baffled as to why Mark is viewed as better than Ben, as from my perspective, although a likeable chap, his routines seem much less complex than Ben's and he seems to have much more difficulty in moving than Ben. I can see that Ben is less agile than other celebrities, but he is far more so than Mark, and he appears to try things that are far more out of his comfort zone than Mark does. He seems to be improving a bit more each week, whereas Mark seems to have been on a plateau for some weeks, although I agree he's worked hard on his hand and arm movements, and puts on a good show. I also can't understand why Sophie is more harshly judged than the others, as although she is cool and reserved, she looks so graceful and clearly works extremely hard, and Brendan seems to give her some difficult things to do.
Is there a set of rules somewhere about the content of the dances? I get lost over which ones shouldn't have lifts, and how some dances we see apparently incorporate steps from other dances - is that a standard thing to do?
I also can't follow why some celebrities are invited on and then criticised for their body shapes. The 6'7" boxer man from last year, who was Natalie's partner, was actually criticised for his height a number of times, which realistically he could do nothing whatever about. I can't get the hang of why particularly tall / heavy / older people are invited onto the programme and then expected to perform as though they are young, slim and graceful. The programme gives the appearance of being all-inclusive, as though anyone can dance well, (which I don't think is true), but if that's the objective, why don't they have a handicap system, as in golf?
I also can't fathom the dance-offs. Why don't they take the scores from previous weeks into account? It's as though everyone is new born every week and their track record is irrelevant. Judging a celebrity entirely on their performance in the DO doesn't make sense to me, the judges' scores only seem to count when combined with the public vote, in order to establish who is in the DO, and has no bearing on who survives.
A further point on the scoring is, it would help to know whether scores are related to technique, emotion, choreography, showmanship or whatever, as without that, it's hard to follow what the celebrities are being assessed on in relation to each other.
As for the judges, CRH gives a lot of detail about the improvements needed, but can't seem to stop himself from making such nasty and unnecessary personal comments that I find it hard to listen properly to what he has to say. It's fine to have a strict judge but he seems to get satisfaction from venting his spleen in a cruel way, which to me is why Darcey is now making objections to his scoring.
I agree with all that has been said about the choice of music, as part of the pleasure of watching a performance is to feel a beautiful flow between the music and the movement, which is virtually impossible with some of the ghastly choices! It seems to be worse this year, as do many of the costumes, some of which completely overpower the performances. Sophie's awful ladybird outfit and several of Mark's come to mind, and two of Patrick's partner's dresses caused problems two weeks in a row - surely that could be avoided?
As for Brucie - it's got to the stage where I'm desperate for someone to retire him, it's excruciating to listen to his patter and really detracts from the programme. Tess is so much better and simply introduces the next couple, and she and Claudia are very good together.
Having said all of that, I do very much enjoy watching SCD, and get caught up with the progress of the celebrities. I would never have expected to enjoy watching formal dancing and I feel miserable when it all comes to an end. It's really something to look forward to each year.
Hope you can help me over some of the puzzles I have!
I've been reading your comments on the Forum for some time, although it was hard to work out where to find those relating to the main programme, and it's been good to hear the views of people who know about dancing, of which I know nothing. I've taken the plunge to join so that I could ask some basic questions, and I apologise in advance for my ignorance.
When I was young, I watched Come Dancing occasionally, but couldn't relate to the contestants at all, as I had no knowledge base and also because it seemed staid and starchy and emotionally uninvolving. When SCD started, I avoided it for years as I thought I wouldn't be interested in it, and also thought it involved voting people out, rather than in, which seems to me an unpleasant concept.
I started watching in 2009 when Chris Hollins was a contestant, as I liked him, and quickly became enthusiastic about it (although in the end I was voting for Ricky Whittle and Natalie Lowe as I enjoyed their dances so much). I couldn't really follow the technicalities of the dancing and still can't very well, particularly as I find the costumes and music are often distracting and the camera angles often cut off the feet, but I go by the overall appearance, and whether the celebrities seem to move as well as the professionals.
On this uneducated basis, I'm baffled as to why Mark is viewed as better than Ben, as from my perspective, although a likeable chap, his routines seem much less complex than Ben's and he seems to have much more difficulty in moving than Ben. I can see that Ben is less agile than other celebrities, but he is far more so than Mark, and he appears to try things that are far more out of his comfort zone than Mark does. He seems to be improving a bit more each week, whereas Mark seems to have been on a plateau for some weeks, although I agree he's worked hard on his hand and arm movements, and puts on a good show. I also can't understand why Sophie is more harshly judged than the others, as although she is cool and reserved, she looks so graceful and clearly works extremely hard, and Brendan seems to give her some difficult things to do.
Is there a set of rules somewhere about the content of the dances? I get lost over which ones shouldn't have lifts, and how some dances we see apparently incorporate steps from other dances - is that a standard thing to do?
I also can't follow why some celebrities are invited on and then criticised for their body shapes. The 6'7" boxer man from last year, who was Natalie's partner, was actually criticised for his height a number of times, which realistically he could do nothing whatever about. I can't get the hang of why particularly tall / heavy / older people are invited onto the programme and then expected to perform as though they are young, slim and graceful. The programme gives the appearance of being all-inclusive, as though anyone can dance well, (which I don't think is true), but if that's the objective, why don't they have a handicap system, as in golf?
I also can't fathom the dance-offs. Why don't they take the scores from previous weeks into account? It's as though everyone is new born every week and their track record is irrelevant. Judging a celebrity entirely on their performance in the DO doesn't make sense to me, the judges' scores only seem to count when combined with the public vote, in order to establish who is in the DO, and has no bearing on who survives.
A further point on the scoring is, it would help to know whether scores are related to technique, emotion, choreography, showmanship or whatever, as without that, it's hard to follow what the celebrities are being assessed on in relation to each other.
As for the judges, CRH gives a lot of detail about the improvements needed, but can't seem to stop himself from making such nasty and unnecessary personal comments that I find it hard to listen properly to what he has to say. It's fine to have a strict judge but he seems to get satisfaction from venting his spleen in a cruel way, which to me is why Darcey is now making objections to his scoring.
I agree with all that has been said about the choice of music, as part of the pleasure of watching a performance is to feel a beautiful flow between the music and the movement, which is virtually impossible with some of the ghastly choices! It seems to be worse this year, as do many of the costumes, some of which completely overpower the performances. Sophie's awful ladybird outfit and several of Mark's come to mind, and two of Patrick's partner's dresses caused problems two weeks in a row - surely that could be avoided?
As for Brucie - it's got to the stage where I'm desperate for someone to retire him, it's excruciating to listen to his patter and really detracts from the programme. Tess is so much better and simply introduces the next couple, and she and Claudia are very good together.
Having said all of that, I do very much enjoy watching SCD, and get caught up with the progress of the celebrities. I would never have expected to enjoy watching formal dancing and I feel miserable when it all comes to an end. It's really something to look forward to each year.
Hope you can help me over some of the puzzles I have!
Amethyst500- Posts : 1
Join date : 2013-11-24
Re: New to the Forum
saxonsiren Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:34 am
Hello & welcome Amethyst500
Well I have watched all the series so far & I still cannot understand why they choose certain celebs thou I feel the do for these reasons
To bring in younger viewers a boy band member
To attract the male viewer a model
To attract publicity bring in an icon ie Jerry Hall
To attract the family bring in a nice personality ie Mark
To attract the female viewer a nice hunk ie Ben/ Matt/Kenny/Gavin
To attract sports fans invite a golf/football legend Tony/Peter
As for the judges they seem to change their minds each week & they ALWAYS have a favourite.
The BeeB needs to encourage all ages to watch SCD that's why we have young/old/fit/unfit/short/tall/large/slim participants.
The DO really leans towards who the judges like Id sooner have the public vote to save one of the bottom two.
B.rucie should have a cameo role now.
It's a lovely forum lots of debates on topic & off topic! Enjoy & keep posting
Sax
Well I have watched all the series so far & I still cannot understand why they choose certain celebs thou I feel the do for these reasons
To bring in younger viewers a boy band member
To attract the male viewer a model
To attract publicity bring in an icon ie Jerry Hall
To attract the family bring in a nice personality ie Mark
To attract the female viewer a nice hunk ie Ben/ Matt/Kenny/Gavin
To attract sports fans invite a golf/football legend Tony/Peter
As for the judges they seem to change their minds each week & they ALWAYS have a favourite.
The BeeB needs to encourage all ages to watch SCD that's why we have young/old/fit/unfit/short/tall/large/slim participants.
The DO really leans towards who the judges like Id sooner have the public vote to save one of the bottom two.
B.rucie should have a cameo role now.
It's a lovely forum lots of debates on topic & off topic! Enjoy & keep posting
Sax
saxonsiren- Posts : 5156
Join date : 2010-09-13
Location : Im wandering the eternal shed path
Re: New to the Forum
TANGOLERO Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:49 am
Hello Amethyst.
A short term answer is simply forget Come Dancing and think entertainment. It's obvious that's what the show does or they wouldn't pit the long, short, tall, young, old, athletic and unfit all against each other on a level playing field. We've all expressed our preferences, but it's best not to try to make sense of it. If it wasn't controversial it would be boring to the masses and B.B.C wouldn't get the rating figures. It's highly unlikely B ruce F orsythe will be doing another series and the show may improve because of it. I'd say just sit back and enjoy it all. It's still the best show on the box.
A short term answer is simply forget Come Dancing and think entertainment. It's obvious that's what the show does or they wouldn't pit the long, short, tall, young, old, athletic and unfit all against each other on a level playing field. We've all expressed our preferences, but it's best not to try to make sense of it. If it wasn't controversial it would be boring to the masses and B.B.C wouldn't get the rating figures. It's highly unlikely B ruce F orsythe will be doing another series and the show may improve because of it. I'd say just sit back and enjoy it all. It's still the best show on the box.
TANGOLERO- Posts : 2625
Join date : 2010-09-11
Age : 84
Location : Flirting between fantasy and and reality. Lost in Austen and forever trying to light a penny candle from a star.
Re: New to the Forum
B4p Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:29 pm
Welcome Amethyst
They sometimes refresh our memories regarding lift rules on ITT but I think (and I may be wrong) that lifts are only allowed in the American Smooth Argentine Tango and final Show dances.
The judges are inconsistent and that is just part of the pantomime. Cr aug makes some valid comments but unfortunately starts with the negative. Br uno starts with the positive then goes off at a tangent down Innuendo Avenue. Darcey has been more constructive with more meat in her sandwich this year, but is still caught speechless and drooling on occasion. She was wiping her eyes this week after the DO. The judges always get mean and moody either just before or just after Blackpool. As has been said before, a mark for technical ability and another for performance would seem more consistent. Lot's of comments in the press about it being Br ucies last year but as always, we'll have to see. I think An ton looks out of place now with the younger crowd and maybe waiting to step into that presenting role.
I think if Natalie hadn't been injured, then Ben would have been teamed up with her, which would have been a better height match. Sometimes the powers that be, mismatch heights for the novelty factor e.g. Brendan & Lulu or the James Bond guy from last year who could just see the top of the Pro's head if he looked down his nose.
Ben has improved, especially with his facial expressions but there's only so much you can do when relying on lifts and good nature.
I think Mark is in big trouble with his knees. He dislocated both in the early days and has been wearing knee braces. How he managed to do the jive, I do not know. He must have been in agony on all the bouncy Latin dances. He would also find it impossible to maintain a flexed knee position to drive him across the floor or very painful to keep changing from toe to heel leads, which I think is something the judges over look in their comments. I think his time has come this week and I'm sure he'll be grateful for a rest. It's not as though any of them can put their feet up during the week. Most are spending long hours twisting and turning in the training rooms.
I think the Producers have been meddling a lot more this year which is a shame. Sometimes the Pro dancers answer the judges back but there have been one or two comments filtering down from the Pro's, that reflect frustration with general themes and props. Even for next week's Hollywood theme; we have already been told which shows and dances have been chosen, so I guess that will include the music and props.
I think the lighting has been better this year, especially the graphics on the dance floor. The rocks that disintegrated on the floor for Kevin & Susanna's Indiana theme were novel. I switched off on Saturday when Steady Cam man started twirling, he drives me insane. Having a live band who can tweak the music down to 90 seconds is great and most of the singers are am-a-zing.
As Tango says, just enjoy it for what it is; an entertainment show with a bit of dancing thrown in.
They sometimes refresh our memories regarding lift rules on ITT but I think (and I may be wrong) that lifts are only allowed in the American Smooth Argentine Tango and final Show dances.
The judges are inconsistent and that is just part of the pantomime. Cr aug makes some valid comments but unfortunately starts with the negative. Br uno starts with the positive then goes off at a tangent down Innuendo Avenue. Darcey has been more constructive with more meat in her sandwich this year, but is still caught speechless and drooling on occasion. She was wiping her eyes this week after the DO. The judges always get mean and moody either just before or just after Blackpool. As has been said before, a mark for technical ability and another for performance would seem more consistent. Lot's of comments in the press about it being Br ucies last year but as always, we'll have to see. I think An ton looks out of place now with the younger crowd and maybe waiting to step into that presenting role.
I think if Natalie hadn't been injured, then Ben would have been teamed up with her, which would have been a better height match. Sometimes the powers that be, mismatch heights for the novelty factor e.g. Brendan & Lulu or the James Bond guy from last year who could just see the top of the Pro's head if he looked down his nose.
Ben has improved, especially with his facial expressions but there's only so much you can do when relying on lifts and good nature.
I think Mark is in big trouble with his knees. He dislocated both in the early days and has been wearing knee braces. How he managed to do the jive, I do not know. He must have been in agony on all the bouncy Latin dances. He would also find it impossible to maintain a flexed knee position to drive him across the floor or very painful to keep changing from toe to heel leads, which I think is something the judges over look in their comments. I think his time has come this week and I'm sure he'll be grateful for a rest. It's not as though any of them can put their feet up during the week. Most are spending long hours twisting and turning in the training rooms.
I think the Producers have been meddling a lot more this year which is a shame. Sometimes the Pro dancers answer the judges back but there have been one or two comments filtering down from the Pro's, that reflect frustration with general themes and props. Even for next week's Hollywood theme; we have already been told which shows and dances have been chosen, so I guess that will include the music and props.
I think the lighting has been better this year, especially the graphics on the dance floor. The rocks that disintegrated on the floor for Kevin & Susanna's Indiana theme were novel. I switched off on Saturday when Steady Cam man started twirling, he drives me insane. Having a live band who can tweak the music down to 90 seconds is great and most of the singers are am-a-zing.
As Tango says, just enjoy it for what it is; an entertainment show with a bit of dancing thrown in.
B4p- Posts : 3864
Join date : 2010-09-16
Location : Near Kibworth
Re: New to the Forum
Sid Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:03 pm
Hi Amethyst!
Welcome
This is a great place to get a few things off your chest isn't it?
Welcome
This is a great place to get a few things off your chest isn't it? 
Sid- Posts : 2369
Join date : 2010-09-11
Re: New to the Forum
saxonsiren Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:25 pm
I can feel a whole whinge treasure chest being opened up! It is a good place to get things off your chest I agree Sid. Amethyst hope your enjoying the forum & post away! Have to get this off my chest OMG I love V.incent's bottom! Sorry but once he started strutting in the jungle in his boxer briefs I became dazzled & then agog! Im quite happy if V.incent wishes to continue strutting his camp mates advise cover up however they do not advise the girls to cover their bikini's up! So Im addicted to V.incent now I blame Sid
saxonsiren- Posts : 5156
Join date : 2010-09-13
Location : Im wandering the eternal shed path
Re: New to the Forum
Sid Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:36 pm
saxonsiren wrote:I can feel a whole whinge treasure chest being opened up! It is a good place to get things off your chest I agree Sid. Amethyst hope your enjoying the forum & post away! Have to get this off my chest OMG I love V.incent's bottom! Sorry but once he started strutting in the jungle in his boxer briefs I became dazzled & then agog! Im quite happy if V.incent wishes to continue strutting his camp mates advise cover up however they do not advise the girls to cover their bikini's up! So Im addicted to V.incent now I blame Sid
I was so impressed, I watched again on ITV +1 sax! He's been hysterical in the jungle hasn't he? I love Annabel Giles too. But no more of Joey Essex's dumb act please
Sid- Posts : 2369
Join date : 2010-09-11
Re: New to the Forum
saxonsiren Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:40 pm
Sid agree V.incent a real tonic in the jungle! Everyone gets "Bella!" & his eyes betray his wicked humour! Im fed up of glow in the dark teeth Joey! V.incent for a jungle trial & please more "Bella bottom!"
saxonsiren- Posts : 5156
Join date : 2010-09-13
Location : Im wandering the eternal shed path
Re: New to the Forum
mauveangel09 Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:47 pm
Hi Amethyst
Welcome to the forum - I think that Ben would have been saved over Mark last night if he had not made several mistakes in the dance off - some couples rise to the dance off and some go to pieces a bit. Mark has got strong nerves and is obviously used to repeating performances - gained through his acting career - he seems to be able to cope with the dance off better than the couples that he has been up against so far. This is just my own theory......We all have our own on here!!
Regarding the rules of the dances - yes there are supposed to be rules about lifts/no lifts/one foot on the floor in the various dances but they have become very blurred as each year has passed and you never know when the judges are going to apply them or not as the case may be!
Welcome to the forum - I think that Ben would have been saved over Mark last night if he had not made several mistakes in the dance off - some couples rise to the dance off and some go to pieces a bit. Mark has got strong nerves and is obviously used to repeating performances - gained through his acting career - he seems to be able to cope with the dance off better than the couples that he has been up against so far. This is just my own theory......We all have our own on here!!
Regarding the rules of the dances - yes there are supposed to be rules about lifts/no lifts/one foot on the floor in the various dances but they have become very blurred as each year has passed and you never know when the judges are going to apply them or not as the case may be!
mauveangel09- Posts : 2470
Join date : 2010-10-04
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