Pro Dancers Slot

Know what you mean, diamonds. I found Brian Fortuna very INTENSE. I just couldn't relax when watching him and Ali dance (and neither, it seemed, could she). Great Salsa with Heather Small though - one of the best. But thereafter their dancing became edgy and intense too. I even felt the training footage they used to show of Brian and his partners all looked a bit tense.

I think it was a recent interview on Lorraine that F.lavia said she'd loved every minute of her time on Strictly but strongly implied that that chapter of her life was over for good. She'd done all she could on the show and was now moving on and looking ahead. V.incent sort of went along with that, he didn't say much, but I think it was maybe harder for him to say goodbye because unlike F.lavia he never won and so didn't have that same closure.

Tina I agree about A.rtem and Robin's physique - not my cup of tea either. Prefer that of someone like Matthew Cutler or Tristan, makes for a more elegant-looking dancer in my opinion.

Another who didn't like Brian Fortuna.......he was really stuck on himself......wanted Hollywood stardom. Can someone who is better at accessing dance than I tell me whether Kristina is the best pro at dancing? I ask because last season we had a pro dance with Kristina as the centrepiece, and Sunday night we had a blonde bombshell Mary Poppins in backless red......Why? If I were going to be really nasty I would wonder about the personal relationships Kristina has with the producers and choreographers.....Heaven forfend.

I also found Brian intense. He struck me as a 'controller'. This was confirmed for me when I watched him on the wheelchair dance programme.

hatlady28 wrote: Can someone who is better at accessing dance than I tell me whether Kristina is the best pro at dancing?

As I've said before, I am not qualified to talk in dance detail, but I have seen most of the female Pro dancers many times in various shows, usually from  the second row. Watching the Strictly Pro girls doing Latin He is. And we obey him., Kristina was visually one rung higher than the others, she seemed to have that little bit extra. I wasn't that impressed by Karen Hauer when she started on Strictly but having watched her live in Burn The Floor (when Robin & Kristina were guesting) my opinion changed and Karen's Latin was balletic, athletic and stunning. Janette (in Burn The Floor with Alijaz) was also incredibly lithe, bendy full of fizz and fearless.

I think Kristina has danced herself into the Femme Fatale role which is now working against her. She seems a passionate lady and I think this probably reflects in her personal life as well as her dancing.

I think it's difficult to say who's best - they're all very good! However, I think (personal opinion coming up) that Kristina is probably the best female pro when it comes to Latin. For ballroom Natalie and Joanne the sister from Grimsby have the edge.

The best female Latin pro they've ever had on Strictly though (for my money) was Karen Hardy. I was fortunate enough to see her dance with Bryan Watson on several occasions when they were still competing and they were truly amazing.

Very interesting comments B4P - I love Kristina's dancing and choreography and as you say she is an excellent latin dancer - I also think she handled the J ohn Sargaent thing well, in her first year.  I know lots of you didn't like Brian Fortuna but they were a great partnership as pros.   However, I think you are right about the femme fatale thing and I have found some of her SCD partnerships uncomfortable to watch - her finest hour for me was with Jason Donovan, that really worked and there were some great routines (some undermarked IMO) but I thought that she fell back  a bit on 'posing' and being a prop last year and I'm not too convinced yet at the partnership with Simon - I think it is difficult for a partnership like this to avoid coming over as a bit 'cougar' like - it could have gone this way with F lavia and Louis Smith, but they firmly got into the teacher/student relationship.

I know Kristina is a bit of a 'marmite' pro but I still prefer her to most of the female pros who have come in to the show in the years after she joined.

I also know what you mean about seeing the dancers differently and with new found respect after you have seen them live. I have seen E rin and A nton a few times now and they are great all round performers in terms of music, dance and song.

Aw - poor Kristina! A 'cougar' is a woman rather older than the man and has somewhat predatory overtones as a label... Kristina is just six months older than Simon - maybe an "older woman" or "cougar" when you are in your early teens but not once you are in your mid thirties!

My favourite female pros in the dance stakes are/were undoubtedly Camilla, Erin, Karen Hardy and Katya. Not sure if any of the current crop can equal them, although, in fairness you have to watch them with pro partners to see their true skills. Katrina is a fine dancer and Joanne is impressing. My favourite person is Natalie and I also like Aliona.

p.s: A cougar is a mountain lion despite what some fame-seeking, sex-on-the-brain Canadian programme says.

Re favourite pros (which after all is the topic of this thread... :

Girls: Lilia, Flavia, Erin and... (probably surprisingly to most on here) Aliona (she might be a bit sulky over her partners but she's an awesome dancer).  I think I might be liking Janette too

Boys: Artem, Vincent, Matthew, Ian, Kevin-from-Grimbsy and.... (only just lately) Brendan (he's matured...)

One's who many seem to like but to whom I never warmed:

Girls: Camilla, Karen, Nicole

Boys: Darren, Brian, Housewives choice

I think Kristina works very hard with her partners and gives it her all and I like her for that. Her choreography is also awesome. I think Robin is very good at bringing out the best in less confident celebs and I like him for that.  But Kristina's giving it all she has style doesn't work for me when she is not trying to make up for a duff partner and Robin is a bit bulky and built to be elegant on the dance floor. I quite like put a vest on you strumpet too as a teacher. Warming to Aljaz too as a teacher.

Edit: Natalie - I like Natalie as a teacher and she is gorgeous in Ballroom. Not sure I exactly warm to her (wouldn't bother going for a bevy with her) but I admire her professionalism and determination.

diamondsandpearls wrote:Aw - poor Kristina! A 'cougar' is a woman rather older than the man and has somewhat predatory overtones as a label... Kristina is just six months older than Simon - maybe an "older woman" or "cougar" when you are in your early teens but not once you are in your mid thirties!

It's interesting that Kristina is possibly the oldest female Pro now, so maybe she feels she has something to prove before they bring in more younger models?

I agree that Natalie is a joy to watch in ballroom. I haven't seen enough of Joanne to make up my mind yet. I miss Nicole Cutler's Jive.

I didn't realize that Kristina was only six months older than Simon - blimey he seems very young (and immature IMO). Also I did say cougar 'like' which is the way it comes across IMO. He reminds me very much of how Louis Smith was in the beginning - it took a lot of work from F lavia and it was a fair way into the contest before Louis 'got it' but he had the luxury of having the public support in the voting from day one.

I like all of the dancers in different ways but there are some for whom I have stronger feelings than others. My favourite females of the current crop are Kristina and Nathalie - I didn't warm to Janette last year but I've seen her differently this year so far. I never seem to like them much in their first year - I was the same with Nathalie and I know that some of you on here were the same as me in that respect. Never been such a fan of Mrs Jordan and feel the same way about Karen Hauer - I find their choreography quite similar, but a big fan of E rin, L ilia, F lavia and KH. On the male side I have been a B rendan fan since series 1 - although for me he changed for the better the year during he was partnered with L isa Snowden. I like Pasha's choreography but didn't feel he did very well with a weaker celeb last year. A rtem is a bit ' marmite' for me - sometimes I found his choreography verging on the self indulgent and he annoyed me the way he broke the rules sometimes but on the other hand he was never boring and a real creative talent that I think is a loss to the show. Like many of you I miss many of the boys who have departed, Ian, Darren, Matthew.

I think it is too early for me to say what any of the newbies are really like yet. You do see them differently when they are doing their pro dances but being a brilliant world class dancer doth not necessarily make a good teacher.

Must admit I'm surprised more people haven't missed Camilla who I thought was a terrific dancer and a decent teacher.

I miss Camilla too along with E.rin,Lillia and Flavia. I like Aliona as well excellent dancer just needs to brush up om the suck it up and smile all the time with your not so hot celeb!
I liked to watch Karen H but never warmed to her same for Natalie. O.la just well displays herself save for Team Cola when I liked her!
B.rendan took me a few series to enjoy and get his personality.Love Alijaz,Robin,V.incent(sob)

Ones I could wave bye bye too; Kristina,Iveta,Joanne(sorry Kevin) Trent and A.nton hides head just feel A.nton won't stand a chance of winning and time to stop the j.ourney of no hope.
Good to see him as a fifth permanant judge.

A couple of really good reasons for missing pros:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P-8OOgtZAI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aWnff_A3Dk (one of my favourite Strictly ballroom moments)

That waltz that Ian did with Jodie has always stayed in my mind Mr T - thank you for posting it. Although I don't think it was particularly high scoring it was really different. Mind you I loved everything Ian did - I also liked C amilla and I don't think I mentioned V inny either.

mauveangel09 wrote:That waltz that Ian did with Jodie has always stayed in my mind Mr T - thank you for posting it.   Although I don't think it was particularly high scoring it was really different.    Mind you I loved everything Ian did - I also liked C amilla and I don't think I mentioned V inny either.

And thereby ariseth a problem. It was total simplicity yet had much content appeal, was cleverly done, and perfectly executed. It also appealed mightily to the G.B.P. So why wasn't it marked as perfection? I can't remember at what stage of the contest it occurred, but this is an example of the oddball marking that does occur. L en cries out for basics whilst the others want performance. By the end the contestants should have both. I've never quite forgiven L en for his marking Austin an eight for his Paso when the other three gave him tens. We expect nit-picking from C raig in the early stages, but once the coal-bagging pasos and Tugboat Annie nonesense has gone, as professionals quality should speak for itself and be recognised by all the judges. Looking back over quite a few past clips it's very evident that the standards at the quarter-final onward is remarkably high and it was very hard to see such great performances reach a stage where a quality contestant went out each week. I fully support the idea of the pros being allowed to choose their own music. Who knows better than they? Obviously, at the Beeb there are hidden talents at work.

Hear Hear

I think the I an and Jodie waltz was about mid way through the contest -   I can't now remember the dance that she went out on.

 I agree that L en can be mightily inconsistent and contradictory.    He is the only 'actual' ballroom dancer on the panel and in the early days he was my favourite judge - constructive but you could look to him to point out if a rule had been broken/where technique needed correcting/ plenty of talk about fleckles and gapping etc etc - but every now and then he did something that was hard to understand-  ref your comment about Austen - and nowadays his inconsistency really leaves me scratching my head sometimes - for example  always picking on A rtem for rule breaking and yet not caring if others do it - such as the J udy and A nton lift last week -   B runo and CRH do usually look for performance I agree, but lately I have found myself agreeing more with their comments than I do with L en - I do still like him and want to buy his new book but find it a bit difficult to know where he is coming from sometimes whereas you kind of know where t he others are coming from.

In fairness, I'm not quite sure whether L en's changed, or is it just my view of him that's done that? Initially, I regarded him as the maestro of all things fair and just, and C raig as just a pantomime villain. the fabu-u-lus darling one is still the fly in the ointment as regards dance progress in the mechanics department watching for things that disturb his visual equalibrium ( ooerrrrr, Mrs) rather than how full the technique jar is. He marks accordingly, which seems odd, but as long as he doesn't allow favouritism to cloud his judgement I suppose he's fair enough. Dressage over show-jumping, if you will is his forte. D arcy too tends to be a lover of the visual lines ( although she is so accomplished in dance that she has to be listened to) and Silver tongued Italian Stallion is the Stanley Unwin of the judges sanctum. L en however, is a puzzle. Has he been indoctrinated with too much flapjack pancake and too many chilli-dogs? Have the American shows ( which I admit I know little of) had an effect on his judgement? Or is it just the Strictly format that baffles him ( freely admitting it baffles me most of the time). We all seem to agree it's become Strictly Come Entertaining as a show, which must affect some decisions, but come on L en, get the field back on level. Mark as you will, but keep the standards the same for everybody.....please?

TANGOLERO wrote:Must admit I'm surprised more people haven't missed Camilla who I thought was a terrific dancer and a decent teacher.

Camilla just always struck me as clinical and cold both on and off the dance floor. She never seemed to bother to hide her, what appeared to me, ruthless ambition to hold the glitterball and when she did, with the very middling Tom Chambers, she immediately quit. It was as though she didn't really care for Strictly as a concept once she had got the prize. I'm not saying that is what she is really like but that is what I saw on the telly. I never really liked her dance style - I prefer someone more like Lilia and Aliona who are compact and sinuous. Having said that I also like the tall elegance of Natalie. ... Obviously there was just something missing in her dancing for me.

I think this may be another "I'll get me coat" moment! I know Tangolero can take it on the chin but all the same, I feel I am in danger of upsetting an icon... And as I said before - what do I know? :-D

TANGOLERO wrote:In fairness, I'm not quite sure whether L en's changed, or is it just my view of him that's done that? Initially, I regarded him as the maestro of all things fair and just, and C raig as just a pantomime villain. the fabu-u-lus darling one is still the fly in the ointment as regards dance progress in the mechanics department watching for things that disturb his visual equalibrium ( ooerrrrr, Mrs) rather than how full the technique jar is. He marks accordingly, which seems odd, but as long as he doesn't allow favouritism to cloud his judgement I suppose he's fair enough. Dressage over show-jumping, if you will is his forte. D arcy too tends to be a lover of the visual lines ( although she is so accomplished in dance that she has to be listened to) and Silver tongued Italian Stallion is the Stanley Unwin of the judges sanctum.  L en however, is a puzzle. Has he been indoctrinated with too much flapjack pancake and too many chilli-dogs? Have the American shows ( which I admit I know little of) had an effect on his judgement? Or is it just the Strictly format that baffles him ( freely admitting it baffles me most of the time). We all seem to agree it's become Strictly Come Entertaining as a show, which must affect some decisions, but come on L en, get the field back on level. Mark as you will, but keep the standards the same for everybody.....please?  

abso - bloomin - lutely!!!

It's not you who has changed Mr T!!!

diamondsandpearls wrote:
Camilla just always struck me as clinical and cold both on and off the dance floor.
I think this may be another "I'll get me coat" moment!  I know Tangolero can take it on the chin but all the same, I feel I am in danger of upsetting an icon... And as I said before - what do I know? :-D

No, no, I value your opinion just like everyone else's D&P. Mine is just that, an opinion. I bought a DVD of Ian and Camilla on tour demonstrating most dances and, being a male maybe I was swayed a little by the lady herself when she was dancing. Unfortunately, like many others, she's well in the past tense now so not really a point of contention. Dancers careers aren't really that long with teaching one of the few options for all but the lucky ones.
I've bee smiling ruefully at some of my dance books lately and thinking "Where are they now?" : Colette Redgrave, Lyndon Wainwright, "Even Housewives choice's Dance Class" may be out-dated soon when they bring out the C raig and Silver tongued Italian Stallion's, Dance Guide " Tuck your bum in Dahling, it's the Tango" : . Time waits for no man.

Joanne From Grimsby....

She has the ultimate challenge in Scott. But she gives him to much to do. She teaches him a routine, rather than teach him basic rhythm, movement and basic steps and then put them together into a routine a tipsy cat could manage.

She has an enviable arse (I like to think mine was like that not so very long ago... ) but she is getting on my nerves now. I am aware that she is the bestest ballroom dancer ever in the whole wide world from Grimsby, but she needs to take tips from her bro on teaching, choreography and how to be endearing.

Don't want her back next series.... Joanne - you're fired! (Sorry - wrong show... )

I don't think even Joanne can put in what the Great Creator left out. I don't think Scott hears the rhythm which I don't comprehend when he makes a living in the music industry. Watching him tonight, Scott also has a lot of intoeing. His left foot sickles badly (spelling - but it is late) which I'm surprised non of the judges have commented on. This surely must have some affect on his balance as he's almost tripping up over his feet and it must pitch him forward, off balance?

Think Joanne needs a basic quiet routine for Scott.Lose the fancey stuff and practise a few rise and falls

saxonsiren wrote:Think Joanne needs a basic quiet routine for Scott.Lose the fancey stuff and practise a few rise and falls

Sounds cruel, but I don't think Scott has the thing that makes people dance in the first place ie, response to rythm. Everybody's been somewhere when music plays and people dance, dance hall, club, Saturday night at the social club or even a wedding. Rythmic people immediately hear the beat, others just hear the noise. I fear Scott's one of the latter. Judy gets the moves right but is somewhat robotic, Tim would stand out as bad at a Zimmer frame carnival, Scott is a walking omlette.