Hips a daisy..

I do have an Artem thread going.....in Strictly Anything else.

We are not getting the right old guys here. Check out Tommy Chong with Peta in 3rd week of DWTS on youtube....old guy, young woman doing AT.....atmospheric or what.

hatlady28 wrote:I do have an Artem thread going.....in Strictly Anything else.

We are not getting the right old guys here.  Check out Tommy Chong with Peta in 3rd week of DWTS on youtube....old guy, young woman doing AT.....atmospheric or what.

The more mature contestants do seem to be more successful on DWTS. I'm not sure why? I have very good memories of Jane Seymour's dancing from a few series back. Gosh she was good.

TANGOLERO wrote:

So glad you mentioned Paso C.D. Antonio Ruiz Soler was almost certainly the finest Spanish dancer who ever lived. Not just flamenco, at which he was incredible, but ballet flamenco, folk dance and Sevillanas were all within his skills. He was to Spanish dance what Fred Astaire was to the ballroom. Here is a clip of him in the arena showing exactly what I mean. Please bear with it, even if you can't take flamenco singing, because you'll find it well worth it, believe me. Watch particularly for body shape, attitude and expression of the corrida (bullfight). Please watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQgP-RBZf1c[/quote]

VERY interesting.... In fact, very little hip movement at all. It was more like clog/tap dancing - ie all focus is on the footwork and not much movement of the rest of the body. However, in this footage there is also a focus on what can only be called posturing - sticking his chest out and coming over all macho and manly.... No wriggling AT ALL!

hatlady28 wrote:I do have an Artem thread going.....in Strictly Anything else.

Where Hatlady, where?!! I looked over on Strictly Anything else and could only find the Songs and Poems section or the Get a Room section - had a peek in the songs but couldn't find anyone singing Artem's praises (geddit.....!) or anything else about the wonderful enigmatic Artem (Did I hear right that he and the lovely Kara are no longer an item?)

diamonds
click on the Strictly Anything Else tab and the Artem thread is about 4th down

diamondsandpearls wrote:

VERY interesting.... In fact, very little hip movement at all. It was more like clog/tap dancing - ie all focus is on the footwork and not much movement of the rest of the body.  However, in this footage there is also a focus on what can only be called posturing - sticking his chest out and coming over all macho and manly....  No wriggling AT ALL!

Agreed, macho posturing is a big feature of Spanish dance and flamenco, like Irish dance, is mainly about feet. We also can't expect contestants to practise religiously something they may do but once/twice in the whole series ie, Paso Doble. I care not who wins, I really don't, but I live in hope that we get at lest one male dance that totally stands out above all else, preferably the paso, but anything of the quality of Tom Chambers, Mark Ramprakash or Austin Healey, that doesn't need handstands or somersaults to dazzle. That'll do for me.

Just viewed the Flamenco clips - thanks Mr T - You know how much I love Flamenco. No gyrating hip swinging' baloos' here - it does have elements of tap but uses the heels and not the toes.

Whilst the paso is not Flamenco , sadly for some obscure reason we rarely see a proper Spanish style paso on SCD anymore - why? It is such a beautiful dance that doesn't need to be done to a rock track or even the ridiculous 'starship trooper' routine that we saw last year.

I've visited Spain quite a lot over the years and love the way Spanish people of all ages dance in ballrooms. I've been looking around to locate the simple ballroom paso much favoured by people just out to enjoy themselves, some well into retirement age.  I finally found it. Here it is. Enjoy:  http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/luislopezcortijo/9954/the-pasodoble-in-spain.aspx

I also loved the paso musical score in the film STRICTLY BALLROOM... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELYwZ7ej0Rc

TANGOLERO wrote:
I also loved the paso musical score in the film STRICTLY BALLROOM...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELYwZ7ej0Rc

Me to, me too!!

I also ADORE the rumba to Perhaps in that film - it shows how the dance can be tender and simmering with contained feelings rather than an all out sensuous sexfest. I think that was the style that Sophie Ellis Bextor was suited to and which Brendan was trying to generate but which people didn't seem to get.

diamondsandpearls wrote:

Me to, me too!!

I also ADORE the rumba to Perhaps in that film - it shows how the dance can be tender and simmering with contained feelings rather than an all out sensuous sexfest. I think that was the style that Sophie Ellis Bextor was suited to and which Brendan was trying to generate but which people didn't seem to get.

Yes, yes, yes, fully agree. Quizas (Perhaps) is a terrific song and Doris Day does it proud. ( I think I have the record somewhere with "Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered" on the reverse side. Real atmosphere there in contrast to the applauded "Hoo's and Ahhhh's of every step in the "Tina Sparkle" version of rumba. .

Have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGyyj_H6HsM

Start it at 2mins fifty seconds in. There isn't a deliberate hip movement in sight, just a natural sway and some magical dancing. First half is quite paso reminiscent in some of its move, but never mincing. Second is mainly tap, but so natural....

TANGOLERO wrote:Have a look at this:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGyyj_H6HsM

Start it at 2mins fifty seconds in. There isn't a deliberate hip movement in sight, just a natural sway and some magical dancing. First half is quite paso reminiscent in some of its move, but never mincing. Second is mainly tap, but so natural....

Love, love, love that second half - they both breeze through an incredible, complex, mind-blowing routine, making it look like they are simply taking a stroll through the park. The break towards the end with no music is just incredible!

One of my favourite dance sequences of all time. Just amazing.

Coming back to hips, in modern latin (to summarise) when weight is being transferred to the standing, weight bearing leg that leg should be straight, not flexed. Try walking and noticing what happens to your legs. Most people slightly flex the leg they're putting forward as they transfer their weight to it. Actually if you don't it's not very good for your knees. In latin that leg is straight before you transfer the weight onto a totally straight leg and that give's the hip movement. If you're stepping correctly you don't even have to think about your hips, it just happens. The reason many of the men (and women) struggle with hip movement in the early stages is that they're still stepping onto flexed legs - that gives a totally different hip movement and the tendency then is to start swinging the hips around to get the hip movement and that way lies di-sas-ter daaaaahling. The somewhat exaggerated movement you see some of the top professional dancers doing is very much a feature of modern latin dance (fashions change) but like it or loath it, it is what's expected and to some extent it's what the judges will be looking for. Watch Brendan in a rumba. He is the absolute king of doing that movement correctly and making it look masculine and sexy as hell at the same time. here's a clip of a pro rumba from a few years back - the men are all working their hips:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4hNxqyMpcQ

Vincent's pretty damm good too (but Vincent is good at everything). See here and watch Vincent's hips. Actually just watch Vincent and drool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtg--hbHm8c

And here is the 2011 Blackpool Dance Festival Pro Latin - Rumba Final. if anything there's a bit more male hip action going on and it's all more stylised.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAZGlyQYr3A

This is very much competitive dancing. You wouldn't dance rumba like this at a social dance. (Well if I could, I might, but I can't )

I think that some of the male celebs are trying to achieve the rumba effect without really having the technique to back it up and it all looks a bit weird.

It's all like learning to walk. They don't give children starting blocks. Learn to walk the dance basic steps and worry about the strutting later. Even L en Goodman's dance video starts singing hip-hooray before a step is taken. Unfortunately, being taught by competitive pros isn't the ideal way to do that. I'm almost sure that last night, Simon was (as one of the judges commented last week, L en?) thinking so much about what came next he didn't dance a rumba at all. He won't be half as complacent next week.

Loved Vincent and Rachel's rumba. Really miss him and Flavia this series.

I think to the celebs, all the Pro hip action looks a bit excessive in the early weeks. As time goes by, they start to lose some of their inhibitions and see WHY they need to exaggerate and accentuate their lines. Even using their arms is alien to most male celebs. Getting used to lifting them up for no practical reason (like lifting a rugby ball or golf club) is one huge job yet alone learning to develop Cr aigs much loved pretty hands.  Trying to keep their body movement flowing through the transitions, (instead of being the static pole round which O la or Kristina are performing) is a big skill, when you've only learned the dance in chunks during rehearsals. The celebs who are able to learn their routine quickly like Pixie, create a bit of extra time to smooth out those transitions which polishes their performance up.

Steve for example, is a complete beginner, a non dancer. He looked like a plank of wood in the first 2 weeks, but by this week, he was really trying to get into the body placement as well as the performance. He's not afraid to come across as 'too cool for school', he's giving it his best shot.

It reminds me of someone learning to make a speech. At first it seems unatural to slow down the speech, exaggerate any intonations, project, allow for periods of silence, but after a while, it becomes obvious that those things are what great story tellers have developed in order to make a good story even better.

I didn't see any hip action from Simon on Movie Night. I thought he looked terrified, like his bluff had been called.

I think that a lot of the trouble is that some of the pros don't teach their partners to dance - they teach them "routines" without taking them through the basics first.

I remember an interview with L en when he said that the pros who take their celebs back to basics and teach them the basic steps and build on it, tend to get better results with celebs who have no dance experience (obviously celebs with dance training are always going to have an advantage). L en definitely named Vincent as someone who did this, and actually spoke very highly of Vincent as a teacher. I think he said that Brendan did this as well.

Tina Sparkle wrote:I think that a lot of the trouble is that some of the pros don't teach their partners to dance - they teach them "routines" without taking them through the basics first.

A song I have been singing for some fair while..

Tina Sparkle wrote:
Vincent's pretty damm good too (but Vincent is good at everything).  See here and watch Vincent's hips.  Actually just watch Vincent and drool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtg--hbHm8c
.

OMG - thank you for reminding me of that! It is my all time favourite SCD rumba. Hell, it's possibly one of only two that I like at all (the other is Cherie Lunghi and James'). The soundtrack, the choreography, the emotion, the chemistry, the technique... mindblowing and sizzling.

My all time favourite rumba outside of SCD is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29JMf66ZCG8

(For Tanglero as well as me )

 It is very noticeable that some of the new pros don't focus on a bit of basic technique - Anya really annoyed me in this respect last year with P atrick and I always find Karen is a bit lacking in this department too.   Looking back over the Tristan and Jennifer performance, he should have taken a leaf out of A nton's book and kept her firmly in hold - after all that is what is supposed to happen in a ballroom dance!! [/quote]

Off topic for a mo - what happened to Anya?

B4p wrote:I think to the celebs, all the Pro hip action looks a bit excessive in the early weeks. As time goes by, they start to lose some of their inhibitions and see WHY they need to exaggerate and accentuate their lines. Even using their arms is alien to most male celebs. Getting used to lifting them up for no practical reason (like lifting a rugby ball or golf club) is one huge job yet alone learning to develop Cr aigs much loved pretty hands.  Trying to keep their body movement flowing through the transitions, (instead of being the static pole round which O la or Kristina are performing) is a big skill, when you've only learned the dance in chunks during rehearsals. The celebs who are able to learn their routine quickly like Pixie, create a bit of extra time to smooth out those transitions which polishes their performance up.

Steve for example, is a complete beginner, a non dancer. He looked like a plank of wood in the first 2 weeks, but by this week, he was really trying to get into the body placement as well as the performance. He's not afraid to come across as 'too cool for school', he's giving it his best shot.

It reminds me of someone learning to make a speech. At first it seems unatural to slow down the speech, exaggerate any intonations, project, allow for periods of silence, but after a while, it becomes obvious that those things are what great story tellers have developed in order to make a good story even better.

I didn't see any hip action from Simon on Movie Night. I thought he looked terrified, like his bluff had been called.

I don't have anything to add to that - that is spot on. A perfect summing up of the issue

It's funny, but in his early days Brendan was seen as a bit of a maverick and bad boy on Strictly (eg 3 lifts in his and Kelly's American Smooth rather than 2) but now he seems as one of the more solid, reliable and traditional teachers and choreographers. His American Smooth with Sunetra was exemplary. I was watching with a couple in their 20s and both of them LOVED that and hated the dances where the music was non-traditional. They both said them said that music that didn't really fit the dance just got in the way and it wasn't "easy viewing" of the dance. It is also notable how wild the audience went at Brendan and Sunetra's very traditional, beautifully choreographed and delivered routine. I really think Brendan has come a long way (a veritable J word...!) in Strictly. I think he knows how to get the best out of his partners and very much teaches the basics with his new-to-dance partners. At the moment Sunetra is clearly not the best of the dancers, but she has already come so far, and with so little training time. I am hoping that she will be in the final 8 and in time will give Frankie, Pixie and Jake a run for their money.

(Sorry - that turned up to be not at all about male hip movement but was an ode to a teacher who goes back to basics... Promise to get back onto hips next time. Here's a sample: Brendan has very good hip action in the Rumba and would be a good person to coach some of the blokes... I remember him on ITT demonstrating "kicks and flicks" (sorry - jive-talking rather than rumba talking.. ) and he explained it so well, saying and demonstrating that "kicks" were actually a mis-nomer and explaining it in different terms. I can imagine that he could get the hip action across equally as well. There - how did I do?!)

perfect D&P! Brendan is very good at explaining things for us on ITT so I imagine that is why he's such a good teacher. I've always thought he has an amazing Latin walk, you know how they're always saying the hips come from the walk- I picture him when I hear that.

D&P - I don't have anything to add to that - that is spot on. A perfect summing up of the issue .

Wow thanks D&P. Just my ramblings not based on any major dance knowledge. It's very noticeable with the way Vin cent walks that he does Latin & Ballet. Even after dancing ballroom, he used to walk to the judges with his toes leading the way.

Many thanks Allsewnonbyhand!

I agree with Brendan's Latin walk and how he pops into your head when people talk about it. I do a lot of running (bear with me - I'll get back to Latin hips in a roundabout way via Milton Keynes...) and through my style of running I have really understood how the weight placement and distribution on your feet affects your hip movement. Specifically, I am someone who is a forefoot striker - ie I run on the balls of my feet - as opposed to a greater majority who are heel strikers - ie run with their heel landing first. As a person who lands on their forefoot I move in a completely different way to the heel strikers. Learning abut my running style made me consider how I walk also. When I walk I also tend to walk on the front half of my feet and consequently have a fair amount of natural hip sway - but it's not in your face. However, as you can tell from my passion for Strictly, I have loved to dance from as soon as I could stand/walk, and I realised without ever analysing it that taking a step with a straight leg emphasised and exaggerated my natural hip sway. But I think it is easier as a woman to practise sashaying along with her hips going like the clappers at a party or club than it is for a man. Most women have a certain amount of natural hip movement (and more hips to emphasise any movement). Men are a bit lacking in the hip department and it is not natural in our culture for men to dance with extreme hip movements. Thus they are clumsy and awkward when they first begin and try to move the hips (and look like a robotic hoola hoop-er) rather than using the feet and legs to propel the hips....