A Little Bit of Honesty.

mauveangel09 wrote:On the subject of costumes - I really liked C laudia's dress on Saturday night - lovely colour and it was one of the best that she has ever worn IMO - better than Tess in fact.

You know someone needs to have a word with Mr and Mrs Clifton about their continued over-use of 'themes'.  Why must they persist? Don't they watch their colleagues?  Why can't they have the courage of letting a dance speak for itself?????

Agree on both counts mauve

It's an old gripe but I'd still get rid of the dance-off. Jamelia's been in 50% of them, she's clearly either someone the public haven't warmed to or enjoy watching so it seems a bit pointless to keep her on. The judges have their say when they rank the couples, the rest should be up to the voters.

Certainly I'd lose it from the quarters onwards. Otherwise things are too open to manipulation (more than they already are with the leaderboard). There's usually very little between the couples at the later stages and their fate should depend on who the viewers want to see more of I think.

I'd be in favour of losing it from the quarters onwards because I agree it doesn't serve any useful purpose at that stage -  but I can't help remembering that the year they did away with the DO made the results show very flat and a bit of an anti climax- I think it does give a bit of an edge to things and genuinely gives couples a 'second chance' - is this the first time that someone has been in the DO as much as Jamelia???  I can only remember Heather Small being in a few DO?   I think the DO was more 'varied' last year in terms of who appeared in it?

I liked it better when everything was done and dusted on the Saturday night, mauve. Main show, 2 hours of voting, results, done!

Sid wrote:It's an old gripe but I'd still get rid of the dance-off. Jamelia's been in 50% of them, she's clearly either someone the public haven't warmed to or enjoy watching so it seems a bit pointless to keep her on. The judges have their say when they rank the couples, the rest should be up to the voters. Certainly I'd lose it from the quarters onwards. Otherwise things are too open to manipulation (more than they already are with the leaderboard). There's usually very little between the couples at the later stages and their fate should depend on who the viewers want to see more of I think.

All down to that old chestnut "goodTV" Sid; if it weren't would people get to see rubbbish like The Jeremy Kyle Show etc? Dance offs make for controversy, controversy keeps folk switching on and the producers go for the gravy train option. I'm pretty sure that Jamelia's ratings will almost disappear now that she's the obvious worst of those left. There'll still be a sizable element of personal favouritism left and the winner might not, as has happened before, be the best dancer. Like it or no, that's Strictly....

[quote="mauveangel09 is this the first time that someone has been in the DO as much as Jamelia?[/quote]How many was Emma Bunton in? Anyone remember?

Sorry I would keep the dance-off as at least whoever is in it then at least the cream (that sometimes ends up in it) will more than likely survive a travesty of justice as the judges are better judges than the public in my honest opinion.

I've always liked the dance off precisely because it give the experts the chance to correct a massive faux pas on behalf of the public - eg Kellie and Kevin being in the dance off last week. If it was down to viewers votes then they may well have gone. Also, because of the tinyy window for voting not everyone gets to vote who would like to vote (me me me!) I usually watch on catch up and can't vote at all - and even when I can, I find by the time I;ve logged in, the laptop's crashed, I've rebooted, logged in again, etc etc I have often run out of time and don't get my votes in. And I know at least four other people who have had the same difficulty with the small amount of time provided to vote. So the voting isn't even representative of all the viewers who WANT to vote.

So, for once, I am disagreeing with Sid  - I find it is the public who need sorting out, rather than the judges - I really don't think they fix things on the leader board that much (a little, yes, but not much)

But I do agree that the results show should be screened on Saturday. It is ridiculous to pretend that it happens on Sunday. It is not just Karen who thinks it's watchers are five....

Edited - because Cal said it so much better and more succinctly than I did and so managed to post his as I was typing! It happens all the time to me. I always use 27 words where the more erudite among you use five....!

I mean without the dance off you are open to all kinds of travesties. Just last week Kellie Bright may have gone with Carol staying.

Do we agree?

Do we disagree?

I have read all of your comments but certainly don't agree with all of them (and in some cases am certainly in the minority).

For example, I loved Kellie & Kevin's samba.  Take a samba, dance it in the style of hip-hop, and still make it look like a jolly competent samba.  I was entertained and very impressed (and Kellie is by no means one of my faves).

I wish the judges (or at least C.raig) would stop banging on about Jay's facial expressions, bored with it now, and if that's all he can find to say then perhaps he should say nothing.  I didn't like Jay's foxtrot, it never got going for me, so I was surprised to hear the judges rave about it.  Nevertheless, I voted for him twice because I felt he was in real danger.

Peter's VW similarly didn't really get going.  Far too much in and out of hold - is Jeannette trying to keep him out of hold for some reason?  The guy has gone from "give him a chance" to "get over yourself" in my estimation so I do try to be fair but I still felt the judges' marks were over-generous.

Jeremy & Jamelia are clearly the two no-hopers (despite their best efforts they're simply not cutting the mustard) and it would have been a travesty if anybody else had gone home.  Jeremy has certainly been on a j word and I hope the experience has been as enriching as he hinted it had been.

Katie was a huge improvement but I'm not feeling the love like some of you guys. It seemed to me that A.nton found one or two moves she could do (the opening outs and the spins) and then repeated them until I was absolutely sick of them. What she did, she did well but, for me, there wasn't a lot of content.

Anita, Georgia, Helen, I pretty much agree with the other comments on here.  All very good, Georgia bloomin' excellent.  I do like Helen and agree that her hair looked much better short.

Oh, and I forgot to metion that I agree very much with mauveangel's comment on here that Claudia's Saturday night dress was just beautiful.

CaledonianCraig wrote:I mean without the dance off you are open to all kinds of travesties. Just last week Kellie Bright may have gone with Carol staying.

Ah but we don't know that the audience would have put the same two in the bottom two in the first place if there was no dance off.

For me, one of the biggest Strictly shocks we've ever had was Gabby Logan going out as early as she did....and that happened during a series when the dance off was in place. So it doesn't necessarily protect the better ones.

And to be honest, I'm not sure I by into the 'travesty' argument that much. The idea of a better dancer going out (whilst it might be disappointing) doesn't strike me as any more or less unfair than the fact contestants start at different levels to begin with.

(also, the evil part of me thinks a shock exit adds a bit of welcome drama )

Sid wrote: [
And to be honest, I'm not sure I by into the 'travesty' argument that much. The idea of a better dancer going out (whilst it might be disappointing) doesn't strike me as any more or less unfair than the fact contestants start at different levels to begin with.

Fair? You mean it's supposed to be fair, Sid? Ann Widdecombe and John Sargeant stand beside Louis Smith and Zoe Ball as competitors in the same type of contest and that's fair? I'm e-mailing Tony Jacklin and Jimi Mystry right away.

Well it depends what floats your boat doesn't it? I would be happy to leave it all up to the judges to decide but that will never happen. I am the purist who yearns for it to be more in line with Come Dancing where it is purely about dance and naff all to do with sex appeal or celeb popularity.

CaledonianCraig wrote: I am the purist who yearns for it to be more in line with Come Dancing where it is purely about dance and naff all to do with sex appeal or celeb popularity.

Add me to that C.C, but I'm also a realist who remembers Come Dancing losing it's overall appeal to the G.B.P. Massively popular at one time it gradually lost favour against competition from the growing variety of programmes available as alternatives. It was too strict and inflexible and people could only live with so much sequence dance. Thus, it died. Reinstated now it wouldn't rate a Saturday evening show spot (or I miss my guess) against such riveting shows from the opposition channels as The Z Factor.."I had a hard childhood and have wanted this all my life" (from a fifteen year-old) "My dad made this frock all on his own so I'm sure to win". or " What do you mean I can't sing, "sob-sob". What do you know?, a ninety year old knife thrower doing cartwheels or a transgender fire eater from Felixstow. Add Bushtucker breakfasts in the altogether, snow-boarding in the jungle, and tuxedos and frilly frocks become dinasouric (such a word ?). Along came the present format, The Russell Grant Flying Extravaganza" etc, at just the right time and Strictly was born. No business like show business.....and all that..

Yes TANGOLERO but like I say we all wish for different things. I want only the best dancers going through whilst others are happy with the upsets even if it means a wooden dancer with two left feet puts out one with potential. That isn't for me and is why I like the dance off as the judges can separate the class from the dross in dance terms.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Yes TANGOLERO but like I say we all wish for different things. I want only the best dancers going through whilst others are happy with the upsets even if it means a wooden dancer with two left feet puts out one with potential. That isn't for me and is why I like the dance off as the judges can separate the class from the dross in dance terms.

I ain't arguing....

I think the number of 'upsets' that would occur without a Dance Off is over-estimated. The audience eventually tires of Jeremy types and stops voting for them and it all works out ok in the end. The finals are almost always the best dancers competing against each other.

TANGOLERO wrote:

Fair? You mean it's supposed to be fair, Sid? Ann Widdecombe and John Sargeant stand beside Louis Smith and Zoe Ball as competitors in the same type of contest and that's fair? I'm e-mailing Tony Jacklin and Jimi Mystry right away.

I was devastated when Jimi was knocked out but I stick by wanting to ditch the DO - like they did that series..

No sid I don't think that is so.

Even in this series we had two stronger dancers in the dance-off where weaker dancers escaped. I recall Ainsley in the dance-off with Jamelia wasn't it? Whilst Carol and Jeremy (clearly weaker dancers) were not in the bottom two but I would guess they were in the bottom two on the judges leader board. I would say rather than ditch the dance off water down the strength of the public vote.

It is true the best dancers end up in the final but my gripe is when dross remains in the early weeks at the expense of a Celeb who showed glimpses of talent and MAY have ended up a contender given the chance.

I expect most of you have seen it, but I discovered this whilst wandering around the dusty, dingy corridors of the Ned Ludd\'s only living descendant and found it MOST interesting. Mainly that the winners often not the top scorers with the judges. So if left to the Judges then Rachel Stevens would have had her rightful crown and Artem would have had the glitterball twice... (If I'm interpreting it right. Which I probably ain't... Maths, stats bla bla - not my thang...)

[quote="diamondsandpearls"]I expect most of you have seen it, but I discovered this whilst wandering around the dusty, dingy corridors of the Ned Ludd\'s only living descendant and found it MOST interesting. Mainly that the winners often not the top scorers with the judges. So if left to the Judges then Rachel Stevens would have had her rightful crown and Artem would have had the glitterball twice... (If I'm interpreting it right. Which I probably ain't... Maths, stats bla bla - not my thang...)

Interesting indeed, D&P, but doth but prove that the mob rules and the judges are but tuxedo'd and flashy frocked monions in a mock courtroom. The most evident proof of this went by the names of Team Cola and Darren Gough who' heart-warming as they were were no serious threat to Fred and Ginger as ballroom icons yet both walked off with four quids worth of bathroom mirror tiles superglued on a polystyrene ball and mounted on a plastic doorstop courtesy of the G.B.P. Yah...... .

TANGOLERO wrote:

Exactly Tango, exactly. Which is why I quite like the dance off to restore a modicum of balance (Sorry Sid - looks like this is one our lover's tiffs... it'll all prove to be a horrible misunderstanding between us and harmony will reign once more but until then you will just think I am a frustrating bint who doesn't understand you....

Re the dance offs, has there ever been a situation where you feel that the judges got it wrong? In general they usually fulfil their function and make sure that the deserved stay behind, which is the strongest reason for their existence. Let's face it, how essential is C raig knocking marks off by the shed load for facial expresssion whilst doing an impersonation of Hellboy with toothache? Come on.
Perhaps they should alter the d-o format, say instead of the couples repeating their dance of doom from earlier, they are invited to go out there and perform an off-the-cuff version of free dance to a Dave Arch lucky dip. Oh boy, the mayhem as the pro partners frantically try to get their parners to remember what a foxtrot is. Bring it on....

*sigh* story of my life