Re: A Little Bit of Honesty.

fiftynotout Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:23 am

Yes, too many backing dancers (one would have been too many) and ridiculous music choices but I can't agree that Jake's issues were totally down to the producers. Somebody on here described Mark as a totem pole with Karen dancing around him but, frankly, that's how I saw Jake. He did very little and what he did was rubbish. Hope he's in the dance off Mad

Still loving Frankie and Simon, now defo my favourites.

Wallflower Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:31 am

Found it hard to think about the show after the abomination of Jake's AT. As D & P said he's been challenging mean and moody all series and then couldn't use it in a dance that needed it because the most ridiculous music choice ever!! He might have been rubbish in a straight AT but we'll never know. D & P please sack the producers straight away.

Apart from that I loved Caroline's Charleston - yes she did luck out with the dance but it was beautifully done although a tad over scored. Also enjoyed Frankie's jive (but why oh why the entry on a surf board - she doesn't need that kind of faffing about when she can dance so well). Liked Simon's waltz but it was overmarked IMO.

The other dances were all very average.

The props and backing dancers - just found out I'm still too cross about that to type properly about it What a Face

saxonsiren Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:17 pm

Not keen on the pro dance at the beginning awful garish costumes.
Loved C.laudia and her quips as usual brilliant

TT aka Pixie and Trent 7.5
I admit I find it hard nay impossible to connect with these two.Hated the music and Trent's costume.A lot of faffing at the beginning before any dance moves.Not a wow but for me I found it dull

Mark and Karen 8
He does get a little over zealous which makes him step out of time
On occasions bouncy and light thought shoulders a little hunched. We had more twerking and jerking! Loved the hot pink shirt

Sunetra and Brendan 7
She went for soft and sensual in the top half of her body just didn't add the same from her legs.She looked more confident and in the VT flashes of Our Angie from No Angels. Not struck re Brendans trousers at all style or colour.

Pasha and Caroline my first 10
I loved it! Wow light lively fun fun.Arm extensions beautiful and wow lifts worked well.Caroline and Pasha came alive tonight.C
Raig undermarked did they read my comment re oops oops side yoir head

Simon and Kristina 9
I liked the music his arm tended to drop a little during routine.Could have been great

In VT a bit of the old cocky Simon showing

Frankie and Kevin 8
Over zealous again by Kevin's fast choreography! Thought a little balance wobble at beginimg
Not her best dance

Jake and Janette 7.5
A weird fusion Greek meets A/T meets line dancing hated the costumes and thought routine a bit messy

TANGOLERO Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:43 pm

hatlady28 wrote:I rarely comment on this thread because I don't think I am knowledgable enough about the nuts and bolts of dance BUT BUT I felt that the producers hands were all over this and they are playing favourites.

I really do wish you'd comment regularly H.L. Your comments are as educated as the rest of us and always welcome. As you can see, we rarely agree fully on much anyway. Smile

As for the producers? Well. Around the world was a really duff idea. There'll be more round the world tonight with Alfie Boe, Andre Rieu and the Irish dance team. Seems studying geography is less important than Sports Science and Media Studies these days. Even Darcey seems to think only Turks ( from Tarky) wear a Fez. And, Lederhozen from Amsterdam, and bounding around the Alps picking Edelwiess in a tuxedo, jiving on a surfboard and the rest....?

One thing we all seem to agree on, the productions are becoming a joke. Look at the daft idea of Sunetra having suitcases to fall over or avoid at your peril last week. Chorus line dancers are for shows and musicals, along with park-benches, street lamps and the rest of the well-worn props, not places where the emphasis is on the dancers skill levels. If total show-dancing is what people want, buy a D.V.D of Seven Brides for Seven Brothers or Chicago. In Strictly, they just get in the way and confuse. Would Jake have got so confused but for all the Zorba plate-smashers from Bar Stavros next door can-can kicking around him? Bad enough trying to fit an Argentine Tango to a Greek Riverdance score that even Gene Kelly would have dropped a jaw at. Get a grip you producers and directors please, and remember the show's called Strictly Come Dancing.

Rant over. Wink

Sid Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:19 pm

Do join in Hatlady, I enjoying reading your thoughts on anything and everything Smile

No dance purists here (I don't think), we're just armchair critics. I probably talk complete nonsense sometimes but I don't care! How are you feeling by the way?

Glad you guys mentioned national stereotypes and cultural appropriation because it crossed my mind as well. I thought it was quite crude at times. In fact, I was watching this week's show with my folks and my dad said it was like traveling back to the 1970s!

On a related note, why invite proper Bollywood dancers only to use them as extras? Should have made them the stars and let them do their thing.

I've rewatched Simon's Waltz and I think I've worked out what was missing for me - that swing and sway they always talk about. Would that be a fair statement?

TANGOLERO Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:31 pm

Sid wrote:
I've rewatched Simon's Waltz and I think I've worked out what was missing for me - that swing and sway they always talk about. Would that be a fair statement?

I think Sid, that the totally relaxed swing and sway is something that only competent professionals have. There's always bound to be a little tension in competitors at this level and, in fairness, Simon managed to breeze his way through it without any obvious signs of stress. The Love God that is Leonard The Lion Goodman would be watching very carefully and he (along with Darcy who is really nit-picking on bodywork) gave Simon a ten.

saxonsiren Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:27 pm

Well I think we ALL agree its a shambolic farce of adhoc music to a mish mash of dance infusion.cooked up by the producers .Last night could have had the title "Carry on Strictly!" Only needed Our Babs to pop out of her costume and the Late Kenneth Williams to exclaim "Ooh Matron!" Mad

Some whiz kid has had the idea of lets update SCD another idiot joined forces with ooh I can randomly pick songs/music scores and hey we can get down with the kids,the family you name it! We have a winning formula here hurrah! NO NO YOU HAD A WINNING FORMULA now your slowly destroying it- shame on you.

CaledonianCraig Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:56 pm

I just find the whole idea bewildering that the professional dancers do not get a say in what music they get to choreograph a dance to - ludicrous. Can you imagine ice dancing without Torvill and Dean being able to use music from Mack and Mabel for example and just being given a duff piece of music and asked to perform to it. I'd really like to know what goes through the SCD producers mind when creating the show?

Tina Sparkle Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:07 pm

cellar-door wrote:
Those silly cliches they do to this 'around the world' theme were bordering on racism, yes, I am annoyed so I am a little OTT but who dares to blame me, huh, huh, huh?!

I for one am not blaming you, CD, I totally agree. I thought that the show was ghastly and if it's how things are going forwards then I'm afraid that for me, Strictly may have jumped the shark. Why did they shoehorn dances into such inappropriate music (poor Pixie - does no one in the BBC wardrobe department know that Dirndl and Lederhosen are not Dutch?) and the travesty that was Jake's AT....well words fail me. I'm not blaming the celebrities, who did the best with what they were given, nor am I blaming yet the pros, whom I suspect also had little say in the matter. I think that this is down to a production team who are desperate to find a new twist every week.

The marks from the judges were weird as well. Simon's waltz for example, was competent, but not great. Although \i think that might have been as much due to the music as anything else. Edelweiss (played at that speed) is great for a Viennese waltz, but not a waltz. A couple of time he and Kristina were almost running to keep up with the music! Graceful and controlled it was not.

I have a feeling that the judges have been told who's going to the final and they've given up any pretence at sensible scoring. I've wondered about this in past years, but it's never seemed as bad as it does this year. I'm finding it very difficult to engage with Strictly this year. I know that it's an entertainment show and not a dancing contest, but for me the entertainment elements have become cheap and tawdry. If it continues like this I don't know that I'll be tuning in next year.

Tina Sparkle Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:11 pm

TANGOLERO wrote:
I think Sid, that the totally relaxed swing and sway is something that only competent professionals have. There's always bound to be a little tension in competitors at this level and, in fairness, Simon managed to breeze his way through it without any obvious signs of stress. The Love God that is Leonard The Lion Goodman would be watching very carefully and he (along with Darcy who is really nit-picking on bodywork) gave Simon a ten.

Sorry Tango I can't agree. I could introduce you to plenty of amateurs who have relaxed swing and sway, of all levels of experience. Yes, it's harder in a competition, but Simon isn't exactly a beginner anymore! Given the point in the contest we're at, and the intensive training all of the celebrities get he should have been able to manage a bit of swing and sway by now.

TANGOLERO Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:43 pm

Tina Sparkle wrote:
Sorry Tango I can't agree. I could introduce you to plenty of amateurs who have relaxed swing and sway, of all levels of experience. Yes, it's harder in a competition, but Simon isn't exactly a beginner anymore! Given the point in the contest we're at, and the intensive training all of the celebrities get he should have been able to manage a bit of swing and sway by now.

Not to argue, because it's just an opinion, but are you saying Simon's waltz was totally lacking, or devoid of said swing and sway,T.S and yet managed 10's from two professional judges.? See, I'm not a dance expert, and I'm not claiming it was sensational, and everything was certainlyin its favour, the elegant dress, the music etc, but I didn't notice too much amiss in any of it, and I'm not Simon's biggest fan that's for sure. L en and Darcy wouldn't mark 10's wrongly I'm also sure. I was watching very closely more for rise and fall, I'll admit. I repeat, just an opinion.

CaledonianCraig Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:18 pm

TANGOLERO wrote:

Not to argue, because it's just an opinion, but are you saying Simon's waltz was totally lacking, or devoid of said swing and sway,T.S and yet managed 10's from two professional judges.? See, I'm not a dance expert, and I'm not claiming it was sensational, and everything was certainlyin its favour, the elegant dress, the music etc, but I didn't notice too much amiss in any of it, and I'm not Simon's biggest fan that's for sure. L en and Darcy wouldn't mark 10's wrongly I'm also sure. I was watching very closely more for rise and fall, I'll admit. I repeat, just an opinion.

I just don't think imon's Waltz was polished enough for a ten (in my opinion). A nine at most as when watching there did seem times to me when he looked unsteady.

CaledonianCraig Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:56 pm

The Results Show Thoughts:

cellar-door Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:04 pm

Tina Sparkle wrote:Sorry Tango I can't agree. I could introduce you to plenty of amateurs who have relaxed swing and sway, of all levels of experience. Yes, it's harder in a competition, but Simon isn't exactly a beginner anymore! Given the point in the contest we're at, and the intensive training all of the celebrities get he should have been able to manage a bit of swing and sway by now.

The only male celeb who I recalled attempting some sway was Ricky Whittle, and if memory served me right, even Gethin, who became very competent in his ballroom, didn't have swing and sway in his waltz, which he did towards the end of the series 4 competition. Now with Matt Di Angelo, he got perfect 40 for his Waltz, and there was no sway as well, maybe he attempted some swing action, but they certainly weren't up to even the 'beginner' amateur competitors' level despite what the judges might have us believe.

I totally agree with you regarding the bizaarre costuming of Pixie and Trent, and the atrocious music choice for Jake's AT. But that said, Pixie, being a really competent dancer, still managed to do the VW justice, while Jake was messy from the beginning to the end, the bump from the backing dancer onto him notwithstanding...

cellar-door Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:07 pm

I would say that Sunetra's dance-off rumba was significantly better than when she was doing it in the main show. Less floppy arm movements, though the grounding of her feet on the floor was still missing.

Mark looked a little stiff, like he did in the main show.

I was wondering the judges would save if it was Mark and Jake in the dance off. Or Jake and one of the other women celebs (not Sunetra) in the dance-off???

CaledonianCraig Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:34 pm

cellar-door wrote:I would say that Sunetra's dance-off rumba was significantly better than when she was doing it in the main show. Less floppy arm movements, though the grounding of her feet on the floor was still missing.

Mark looked a little stiff, like he did in the main show.

I was wondering the judges would save if it was Mark and Jake in the dance off. Or Jake and one of the other women celebs (not Sunetra) in the dance-off???

Once it was Mark in the dance-off against Sunetra the writing was on the wall. C.raig has a soft spot for Mark as does B.runo and Darcey.

mauveangel09 Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:37 pm

Farewell to Sunetra - boo hoo - Crying or Very sad

but I think she had run her course - she was excellent at the ballroom and her top line was always very good but
I think as we all knew she wasn't a good enough all rounder to go to the full term. Very sad that we won't be seeing her again though and sorry that we won't be seeing any more of B rendan this series, one of the true SCD pros and one of the best in terms of choreography and teaching.

Ok...............niceties over..............hope Mark goes out next week! Twisted Evil

saxonsiren Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:39 pm

Hard choices you give CD but I think they would opt for Mark.So far Jake had an excellent early dance then promised so much yet hasn't always delivered.Mark after a do apoearence suddenly upoed his game and tempo. I do feel Mark has more ability in both dances to offer than Jake.
Sunetra had her extra week and it was her time.My question is which judges will pin their favourite female dancer-all for Pixie?Frankie or Caroline?
I feel it will be a male do next week more Simon/Jake

mauveangel09 Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:56 pm

Sorry to disagree with you Sax but I think Mark is now possible on the trajectory to exit. I felt his performances were weak this weekend and that Karen is really relying on the 'smoke and mirrors' in their routines - however, having said that I think Jake is running out of steam (Scott Maslin?) he had the duff routine thrust on him at a bad time tactically and seemed almost a bit surly in the results show tonight, but I wonder what his vote share is? I thought it would be high.

IMO Simon has turned a corner and I heard him say that they are dancing the american smooth next week which should be sure fire winner.

I think that the beeb are desperate to have at least one male in the final but in reality to me it could be quite close between all three of them and next week will depend very much on who lucks out on music and the dance that they are given.

TANGOLERO Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:03 pm

Next week, L en will say to Jake:

"Just when you looked in trouble mate, YER CAME ART ERE AND GIVE IT YER ALL, AND WHAT AN ALL IT WAS! GED IN THERE ME OLD SON AND GET US COKERNEES IN THE FINAL....! cheers

You heard it here first.... bom

CaledonianCraig Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:17 pm

mauveangel09 wrote:Sorry to disagree with you Sax but I think Mark is now possible on the trajectory to exit. I felt his performances were weak this weekend and that Karen is really relying on the 'smoke and mirrors' in their routines - however, having said that I think Jake is running out of steam (Scott Maslin?) he had the duff routine thrust on him at a bad time tactically and seemed almost a bit surly in the results show tonight, but I wonder what his vote share is? I thought it would be high.

IMO Simon has turned a corner and I heard him say that they are dancing the american smooth next week which should be sure fire winner.

I think that the beeb are desperate to have at least one male in the final but in reality to me it could be quite close between all three of them and next week will depend very much on who lucks out on music and the dance that they are given.

I'd agree. Jake is the much more competent dancer of the two. To me Mark is not as polished as Jake and you can see this in the choreography as there are more lifts put into his dances. A see Jake hanging around longer than Mark as he is the better dancer and has the hips and the bigger fan base.

Tina Sparkle Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:54 pm

I think that both Jake and Mark have turned in some good performances and some not so good. For me, Jake is the better overall dancer, but it could come down to who has the dance which suits them better next week. I do wonder of Jake is starting to feel the effect of working a full schedule on Eastenders (which I think is quite a heavy workload?) and rehearsing. As somebody said earlier like Scott Maslin (have I got his name right?) who did some great dancers early on (a great jive and I loved his Viennese waltz) and then seemed to run out of steam. I recall someone saying then that a combination of Eastenders, Strictly and a bad cold had knocked him for six and he never really recovered.

As far as Simon's waltz goes, I stick by what I said earlier (which of course is only my opinion!). I think he was overmarked, but I'm really not sure that I was watching the same dances as the judges last night! I think that sometimes seeing something for "real" is different to seeing it on TV and the judges see things that we don't and sometimes miss things that the camera enables us to see, but I don't think that was what was going on with Simon. Last night the judges just seemed completely off the wall part of the time.

Sid Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:23 pm

Well it was inevitable really. I'm sad to see Sunetra go, she had a warmth and genuineness about her that I liked. And I maintain her Rumba was better than Mark's whatever-that-was Razz

but I concede he's the slightly better dancer overall and she'd have gone next week had she been saved tonight. I thought Sunetra looked somewhat relieved to be honest (in a positive way), no ones wants to be in dance-off after dance-off....she left on a perfectly respectable Rumba with her head held high.

Tina - I felt the same way about Simon's Waltz. I'm just not sure the judge's scores are always the most reliable indicator of what a dance was like because I feel sometimes they have their own agenda going on or have been instructed to arrange the leaderboard a certain way, maybe to give those who need it a helping hand. Interestingly, Ian Waite and Camilla both scored the weekend's dances on Twitter and awarded Simon 8s and 9s. Two Waltzes by male celebs stand out in my memory - Ricky Whittle's and Matt Dawson's (I wasn't all that keen on him but I thought he mastered the Waltz beautifully). Simon's didn't look as good to me.

Regarding Jake, they need to stop messing around when choosing his music and themes! Just give him something befitting of the dance he's doing and then everyone will be able to judge him properly - is he better than he's being allowed to be or is he struggling.

Tell you what I'd love to see next week, an Argentine Tango showdown between the top ladies - would spice things up nicely!

saxonsiren Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:24 pm

No worries Mauve we all have diifferent views regarding the dancers Smile

I think both Jake and Mark suffer re lack of training hours at the moment but surely when you sign up for SCD you know the workload required and how it will work around your commitments? It will depend on which dance Jake/Mark get but will Mark throw in another fantastic boynce back from the dance off performance? Also I note none of us are assuming it could be an all female DO say Caroline/Frankie?

diamondsandpearls Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:54 pm

Hatlady- I know absolutely nothing, yes zero, about professional ballroom and latin dances but I have never let that stop me inflict my (very strong!) opinions on the rest of you... Embarassed

You are so much more balanced and articulate than I am and I think your comments deserve being here much more than mine. So come on - join in! I would love to hear more of your measured opinions.

Tina - my strong, zero knowledge opinions seem to conflict with yours on Simon! I am now totally won over, loved the waltz, thought it was under marked (oh yes! Controversial. ..:-o), and won't hear a word said against him ;-). I do genuinely feel he has gone on the furthest j-word. All of the ones left, apart from him, have been to some kind of stage school and at least 3 of them have dance training. He has neither and even if you think he was overscored he has come a long way since his second dance off. He has only done the waltz once so hasn't had the whole series to get to grips with lots of swing and sway. As Tango said, in the past there have been 40s for dances without pro amounts of swing and sway.... Anyway, you obviously don't have to like his dancing - but I most certainly do and am looking forward to a very smooth American smooth.... :-)

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