Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

diamondsandpearls wrote: Eliza Doolittle in a raincoat rather than her beautiful ballgown?


Alexandra[...] it wasn't perfect as far as I could see.[...]  I think I will be unpopular for that but so be it


Gemma take note - a nice box of choccies or your grannie's homemade sticky gingerbread to the costume dept (and the hair people too while you're at it).

Eliza was in a coat because she's still a flower girl in the "Wouldn't it be Loverly" scene. In some ways it was the skirt that was out of place! It's not till the Embassy Waltz that the ballgown comes out.

I totally agree about Alexandra. I didn't think she deserved 10s for her jive at all.

Your advice to Gemma is also right on the money. Whenever I started a new production I always made friends with Stage Management, Wardrobe, and Wigs first before other actors etc. Backstage crew are much more important than people realise and can make your life wonderful or hell. Biscuits, ca.kes and other forms of bribery are always welcomed!

The areas I thjought were first one or two kicks did not look sharp and snappy - for that alone it shouldn't have merited 10s but there you go.

Aston as well was overmarked considering the judges picked up on a lot of faults/errors but yet he still scored three 9s and an 8.

Twirlie wrote:

Eliza was in a coat because she's still a flower girl in the "Wouldn't it be Loverly" scene. In some ways it was the skirt that was out of place! It's not till the Embassy Waltz that the ballgown comes out.

I take your point Twirlie - but mine was more that, despite the fact that they had the opportunity to choose a number from the film where she is all glammed up, they chose a number where she was still a poor flower seller.  This is my major and ongoing grump with Movie Week.  Ballroom and indeed Strictly itself is all about glitz and glamour - sequins and glitter, ballgowns and tiaras.  But instead of choosing n.umbers. which will echo and re-inforce that bit of weekly glamorous escapism they choose n.umbers. and films where the characters are anything but - trolls, scarecrows, buzz lightyear, and flower sellers...  For me it is SO important that the beautiful dresses that the rest of us mere muggles never get an opportunity to wear are showcased everyweek, and Movie Week to me screams Old Hollywood and Red Carpet occcasions.  Not flippin' trolls which showcase splindly little legs in turquoise tights (nope, still not over that....).

And if they were going to give a flower seller a (what looked like from the bit we could see) fabulous red ballgown then the choreography should have given her the oportunity to lose the coat and hat and reveal the dress in all its glory.  A waste of costume dept's time otherwise....

Gosh - I'm really grumpy these days!  No wonder I sound 102!  But really, I am SO easily pleased - glamour, glitter, gorgeous dresses, beautiful and appropriate tunes...

diamondsandpearls wrote:
I am going to have to look at Jonnie again as you all speak so highly of the routine.  I don't know why I can;t remember it...  

In retrospect you're right about Jonnie's AS, diamonds. It was 90% Oti. It's her I remember when I bring the dance to memory. But that's no bad thing because she's soooo unwatchable and I find myself making allowances I wouldn't make for Janette or Karen.

I'm not too troubled tho, because I haven't noticed Oti making a habit of it. Jonnie has more than held his own in other dances.

Sid wrote:

[...]you're right about Jonnie's AS, diamonds. It was 90% Oti. It's her I remember when I bring the dance to memory. But that's no bad thing because she's soooo unwatchable and I find myself making allowances I wouldn't make for Janette or Karen.

Part of the attraction on Saturday was that fabulous red dress she was wearing. It really did catch the eye. Also, you're right, a lot of it was Oti, but not in the way some of the Pros do, just taking over. I felt she was creating a real partner in Jonnie - a male partner who knows how to show off his female partner especially in the lifts. That's what much of the dancing's about isn't it?

[quote="Twirlie"]

Not totally Twirlie, at least not for me, because the male pros would have a decided advantage on marking there. Lifts are becoming too much of a feature, when, in actual fact Fred and Ginger managed some really classy "twirls" (forgive the pun) without imitating Cirque Soleil. Now pure dancing is being judged on acrobatics and musical weightlifting. All a bit like a belly flop being overlooked because it had 17 triple toe loops and a backwards somersault on the way down....if you see what I mean...

All a bit like a belly flop being overlooked because it had 17 triple toe loops and a backwards somersault on the way down....if you see what I mean...


Loving the analogy Tango!   And yes, I totally see what you mean.  And I think I very much agree.  Ballroom dancing was something that everyone could and did do (back in the age of the the dinosaurs.  Or maybe Queen Vicky...)  Anyway, I accept that competiton level is going to concentrate very much on perfect technique, eg the exact foot placement in every step, whether you should be leading wiht ta heel or a toe, being on the flats or balls of your feet, how your hands look, where your head is and so on and so on ad infinitum....   But Ballroom was never about flashyness or showing off your pecs - it was about moving your feet to a set beat and rhthm in a recognised style.  Even Latin really - most of those dances evolved from street dances, or at least community dancing.  No tricks and lifts required.  The only exception was Swing dancing which was all about acrobatics.  But a VW based AS - most certainly not!  I never EVER think lifts = a good dancer.  It equals a good gymnast or strong muscles - neither of which you need to be a good dancer.  The lifts are for pure entertainment and should not be part of scoring the dance itself.  

Going back to Oti Twirlie - I agree wholeheartedly about the red dress. When I wrote this week's epic on Saturday's show that is the only thing I could comment on as it was teh only thing I remembered.

And yes Sid - I am SO Afor Oti that I forgive her things I wouldn't let go in other pros.  And she looked amazing in a to-die-for dress.

Which brings me nicely on to costumes....  I am feeling a bit deflated this year.  Every week there are usually one or two little pieces of utter fabulousness.  But two or three series back there were usually about 8!  This week was particularly poor -Oti's was one I would have killed for, and both QS dresses were very nice.  But that is it.  The Paso dresses were so dire that they fall into the realm of Brian Conley, ie I shall just draw a veil over them and move on.  Even gorgeous Charlotte had a strange dress given the Jive and one that really didn;t show off her very perfect figure.  IO accept there are SO many contestants at the moment that it must be hard coming up wiht fantabulous costumes for each and every one, but it was managed in the past..... I wonder what's going on?  

I

diamondsandpearls wrote:
Which brings me nicely on to costumes....  I am feeling a bit deflated this year.  Every week there are usually one or two little pieces of utter fabulousness.  But two or three series back there were usually about 8!  This week was particularly poor -Oti's was one I would have killed for, and both QS dresses were very nice.  But that is it.  The Paso dresses were so dire that they fall into the realm of Brian Conley, ie I shall just draw a veil over them and move on.

I'm obviously the only one in the forum that Ab.So.Lutely loved Gemma's dress and hair.  The bodice was so sexy and the split skirt floaty and wonderful. She has an unmistakably female figure and the outfit just served to emphasise that. You'd never mistake her look for the boyish/androgynous look of catwalk models. Thank goodness. That braided hair look is just one I have always loved, and her natural colour coming through in her roots just served to make the two tone nature of it more dramatic.

Twirlie wrote:I'm obviously the only one in the forum that Ab.So.Lutely loved Gemma's dress and hair.  The bodice was so sexy and the split skirt floaty and wonderful. She has an unmistakably female figure and the outfit just served to emphasise that. You'd never mistake her look for the boyish/androgynous look of catwalk models. Thank goodness. That braided hair look is just one I have always loved, and her natural colour coming through in her roots just served to make the two tone nature of it more dramatic.

I liked her hair too Twirlie and didn't mind the dress, particularly the bodice

Talking of costumes - An ton! What a showstopper. Everyone else's costume paled into insignificance. Worth a 10 just for the cheek of it. Certainly stole the attention from Ruth so mission accomplished.

Going to stick to a few comments instead of a full on rundown. With four couples on 16 points equally, it shouldn't be hard to predict the dance off and the order doesn't really matter except perhaps to the dancers and their fans. In truth, Ruth apart, its a decent reflection in class level between these and the rest although Simon and Brian were a tad less good than the others. .

I have some real questions though, like how on earth did Debbie's Rumba rate 9's from all three judges? It was a dance all about Gio flashing around and pointing at her whist she did a series of poses that was as danceless in content as Burton's mannequin s.

How did Joe's Paso, which I though excellent with great music, rate a ten with the boss judge and a seven from C raig?

Gemma and Alijaz did a rumba to odd-ball music and called it a Foxtrot. Must be me? And did Gemma have both feet off the floor in front of two paericularly eagle-eyed judges and not have it mentioned ?

Alexandra's music for the samba had a really strong beat that was so hard to miss they didn't need to count a thing. That was a real plus.  

Ruth and Housewives choice deserved three sixes as they didn't do much wrong and the great music and rythm really set the mood for entertainmment. "Love is in the air" is brilliant feel-good music. Love it. C raig's "Pan Pacific Grand Prix "  reference to Strictly Ballroom gave me a laugh and An'ton deserves a bravery medal for the Barry Fry special...
Dance of the night for me was Joe's Paso Doble. Terrific atmosperic music and he really pulled it off. Just shows how the right music sets the mood and atmosphere for a traditional historic dance.. Made my night.

Jonni is quite amazing, Allexandra and Aston are great dancers and a slight class above almost all the rest, but nothing is certain  in the world of Tina Sparkle and co... .

Go for it....

I'm still chuckling at C.raig's impersonation of B.runo!

Will add my comments later but just wanted to say I felt a bit sorry for Shirley tonight, Jonni was actually making a joke at his own expense and she thought she'd made a faux pas when in fact he was making it ok to say he had a spring in his step. She is obviously quite aware and sensitive of the criticism she has had.

Hi again,

Did you enjoy the show tonight? Well I did. Not so much to be grumpy about tonight.

Davood and Nadiya   (YASB) (Jive)
Very lively but I don’t know that he has his feet totally under control. YASB does out-dance him somewhat.  Cr.aig was right, it was a bit heavy footed. 7 from me.
Mollie and  AJ (Viennese Waltz)
Aye, not bad, not bad! One of her better dances I thought. A lot of faffing about at the beginning but it was beautiful to watch. The rest of the dance was excellent as well. I did enjoy it. 8
Simon and Karen (Charleston)
VERY VERY ENTERTAINING!! I didn’t know he had it in him! Cr.aig and his bloody swivel! I think he made his point but he did go on and on about it. He didn’t have any swivel? I thought he did have some, but what do I know.  6
Debbie and Giovanni (Rumba)
Very beautiful – very committed, unashamedly romantic.  Cra.ig – hilarious! 9
Brian and Amy (Jive)
No, sorry, a very enthusiastic performance, but it’s dad-dancing at best! I did wonder if he was going to run out of puff before the end of the dance.  4
Susan and Kevin (Cha Cha)
Hilarious! What a great effort. Not terrific technique but so much enjoyment and so much commitment! 6 or 7
Aston and Janette (Waltz)
There’s something about Aston, his upper body seems to work OK, but his legs don’t flow as well. 8
Ruth and A.nton (Samba)
Such a lot of fun! Outrageous An/ton as usual. Lots of fun – mistakes, lots of them too, but I enjoyed it. 6
Gemma and Aljaz (Foxtrot)
A lovely dance. She’s really getting very good. Yes, the head and neck was a little stiff, but the rest was fluid and graceful. 8
Joe and Katya (Paso Doble)
Very strong and better than last week. It was a bit off balance very occasionally but a good showing . 8 (No way was that a 10)
Alexandra and Gorka (Samba)
Can’t see anything wrong about that. Did not spot the pigeon toes. She’s still not one of my favourites anymore but I’m forced to give her… 10. What the Hell is Cr.aig on about? 7? That’s ridiculous.
Jonnie and Oti
Yes, a little tense across the shoulders, but it was a great routine and very enjoyable. Oti’s very brave doing kicks and flicks etc alongside that blade. It would really hurt if it made contact. I think she’s also enjoying the challenge of dancing with Jonnie because of the disablement. Poor Shirley – a spring in his step! I bet he has people mates especially, saying that sort of thing all the time to him. 8

I must say I didn’t miss B.runo at all tonight. He’s becoming a bit much I find, almost a caricature of himself. However it was wonderful to have C.raig bursting out in his persona and falling off the chair as well. Brilliant!

Twirlie wrote:Oti’s very brave doing kicks and flicks etc alongside that blade. It would really hurt if it made contact. I think she’s also enjoying the challenge of dancing with Jonnie because of the disablement. Poor Shirley – a spring in his step! I bet he has people mates especially, saying that sort of thing all the time to him.

I was thinking the same thing about Oti having to adjust the height and stride of her own steps around that blade. As you say, I think she's enjoying the challenge and starting to relax a bit more with him over the last few weeks.

I also agree with another (?allsewn) that Shirley has been upset more by the flak over the series so far than she's admitting. She looked quite vulnerable when Jonnie made his joke.

I really enjoyed the show  - even though there was too much faffing in too many of the routines  I felt that a great deal of improvement was shown and there was somehow a sense of joy around the performances tonight.  I did miss B runo -I loved CRH's impression - only having 3 judges seemed to be a real leveller and I wasn't surprised that 4 couples ended up on tied scores.    Quite a few people impressed me tonight - Debbie and Gio, Gemma and Alijaz, Joe and Katya (dance of the night) and Jonnie and Oti, not to mention Mollie and AJ - for me Aston and Alexandra were for the first time, not the best dancers tonight.     Shirley was as inconsistent as ever and I loved C laudias red lipstick, she looked really classy tonight.

Davood and Nadya  Overmarked - particularly by Shirley. It was an average jive to me.   I know this must have been a bit challenging to him as he is tall with the result that all came across a bit 'loose'.  It was one of those routines that went 'in and out' for me - parts of it were good and his timing was good on the side to side bits but then it went out again and I didn't enjoy the handstand - a bit forgettable overall.

Mollie and Aj Really liked this one- great music and costumes, Mollie is really at home in the ballroom n umbers. Excellent routine.

Simon and Karen It was quite entertaining and I did like the music - but it was more a stage variety routine than a Charleston with not a lot of basic Charleston and no swivel - as was discussed.  I did think that he was in time though for most of it and made a good effort.

Debbie and Gio really impressed me - I felt it was a proper rumba with recognisable steps and rumba walks - Shirley for once got it right with her comments. I felt that with more hip action it would have been approaching perfect.  As it was I did feel that it was a bit staccato and I thought '8's rather than '9's but so glad for them and I threw them a few votes as they were placed quite early again in the running order.

Brian and Amy His timing was as good as ever and he was clearly enjoying himself which was good to see - but unfortunately despite always being in time  he wasn't too strong and just seemed to run out of energy,

Susan and Ke vin Not so good this week - looked a bit similar to what they have done before -and I don't think she could 'get' the cha cha steps but entertaining nonetheless.

Aston and Janette Typical Janette routine - loads of contemporary with a bit of a nod to the waltz. Not really my cup of tea and I felt he was short on technique but overall danced it well and improved his frame - but not flawlessly

A nton and Ruth Loved it!!  loads of basic samba steps and I have never seen Ruth look so animated. Whilst it wasn't brilliant it was much better than I thought it would be, was better than Simon and B rian -and all credit to A nton.

[/b]Gemma and Alijaz[/b] To me this was a proper ballroom  n umber I really liked it and was one of the dances of the night for me - slightly undermarked I thought.

Joe and Katya  WOW!  What a difference decent paso music makes  ( but we know that!!!) from the start the shapes were brilliant and I loved the choreography - Joe really danced the part of the male flamenco dancer and I was in mind of Ramps for some reason.   Although I loved it I wouldn't probably have given it a '10' - I thought it should have been 3 '9's but I wonder whether Shirley gave the 10 to balance out CRH's ridiculously low score?

Alex and Gorka Agreed with the judges on this one - she is a great dancer without a doubt but this somehow didn't quite feel like a samba - I felt it was too intense somehow and I also felt that the feet were just not right in some way. There was a lot of 'bump and grind' and breaks and sometimes I don't feel that they danced as one.

Jonnie and Oti  A pretty decent quickstep I felt that I wasn't watching Oti all the time and Jonnie was confident and animated.  The QS content was solid and overall it was a great dance without too many thrills and spills.

mauveangel09 wrote:only having 3 judges seemed to be a real leveller and I wasn't surprised that 4 couples ended up on tied scores.

It was 8 (almost 9) out of the 12 couples mauve

I meant to say 4 couples tied on the bottom scores - 16

All the mid-table ties, made me wonder if the judges were trying to produce a shock dance off, with one of the lower table tie couples

Yes you might have a point there - there definitely seemed to be tactical scores going on.

With four couples on 24 points (10 score from the judges) and four couples on 16 points (7 score from the judges) there is nobody scoring 1 to 6 from the judges which means absolutely nobody is safe when you add in the public scores. The couples should all be afraid, very afraid. Absolutely anybody could be in the dance off, in fact it's most likely to be the higher scorers because people would not have felt they needed saving.

I predict a shock dance off. It could even be the two ringahs, Alex and Aston, which would put the judges into meltdown. Now that I would love to see mwahahaha.

fiftynotout wrote:  The couples should all be afraid, very afraid.  Absolutely anybody could be in the dance off...I predict a shock dance off.  It could even be the two ringahs, Alex and Aston, which would put the judges into meltdown.  Now that I would love to see mwahahaha.

Now that would be worth watching on the " Sunday" results show!  *evil laugh*
Good to see you getting into the Halloween spirit ready for next week 50!

I enjoyed the show tonight, highlight for me was Joe's Paso and An.ton's outfit!!

Davood and Nadya  he started off well, but I thought it became a bit patchy - a little overmarked for me

Mollie and Aj She really is a ballroom girl, and I loved her dress too. I hope she doesn't get forgotten from going so early, I gave her a vote just in case

Simon and Karen agree with mauve here that is was more a variety show n.umber, Karen was doing everything - fair dos he seemed to get it all right but he was a tad behind the beat from the start. Should be in the DO for me

Debbie and Gio I expected good things as rumba was going to suit her - but I think it was a bit overmarked as she hasn't quite nailed the hip action yet. Whilst I appreciate that people are grieving can we please stop the death top trumps now. It seems a bit too much like appealing for votes. We've all lost someone in our lives and music is a powerful reminder  of good times and can bring sharp pains of loss but I think it would have been better to just have a brief comment afterwards rather than in the whole VT build up( although I do believe Alex was genuinely overcome last week).

Brian and Amy I wanted him to do well, but I actually got up to make a cup of tea rather than watch it all

Susan and Ke vin First off hats off to wardrobe, hair and make up who made her look gorgeous! Difficult dance and she didn't really master it but I think she is riding a wave with Kevin and I think she might survive

Aston and Janette I do like Janette's choreography in dances like this, I know it's not everyone's cup of tea but I was drawn in. It felt a bit like the judges were trying to pull the ringers down tonight in their marking.

A nton and Ruth    An.ton you genius!! Loved it !!!!

Gemma and Alijaz I am liking her more and more. I really want her Joe and Mollie to give Aston and Alex a run for their money. I thought this was a proper job.

Joe and Katya WOW! Stole the show for me, he completely lived up to my hopes! producers please note great music +great costumes = great paso. I absolutely loved it and I'm so pleased they gave Katya a nod for her choreography

Alex and Gorka I think mauve used the word intense and that's spot on- she wasn't quite able to get the feel of the samba albeit she can pretty much do the moves. Picky from the judges, more trying to bring the top two down than anything, I thought.

Jonnie and Oti  Predictable VT - Jonnie has acting lessons!- but not really needed for this dance ironically. I thought he did really well, and I did laugh when Oti was more out of breath than him afterwards! Already commented on Shirley's remark, just an unfortunate turn of phrase which he tried to make light of.

I still think it will be a Simon/ Brian DO but am also kinda hoping for a shock!!

Another good show, with the exception of some rather dubious scores, imo, with far too many ties.  I also get the feeling that there’s a teeny bit of manipulation going on behind the scenes to downplay the two frontrunners.
 
Davood –Erratic, I thought he looked lost at the start, better in the middle, and then lost again near the end.  Overmarked in my opinion.

Mollie – My favourite couple - really enjoyed this, and she got most of my votes.  

Simon – good effort, though I didn’t really like the choreography and disliked the piggyback part. Felt Simon’s timing was out in places, and agreed with Darcy – he doesn’t finish his moves.

Debbie – meh, sorry, I just find Debbie a bit clinical.  Her style seems to be neat, almost clipped steps, and this rumba left me cold.

Brian – a bit of a scrappy jive and I thought he looked uncomfortable in places.

Susan – I didn’t really like the routine, and thought she looked a bit gallop-y in places. But I felt she deserved to be a mark or two above Simon, Brian and Ruth

Aston – hmm, the VT seemed to portray Aston as having problems and needing to ‘dig deep’ but I still place Aston and Alexandra as the clear frontrunners, despite any attempts by the VT’s & judges to downplay them. My main gripe with the waltz was with the spinny camera work at the start, so annoying.

Ruth – Haha,  A.nton’s cunning distraction plan worked for me. I spent the whole 90 seconds transfixed by pink frills, and hardly glanced at Ruth.  

Gemma – very elegant, danced well, although didn’t find the routine that memorable

Joe – Very dramatic, delighted to see Joe return to form again. If I had one gripe, it's that the Strictly paso seems to be all  ‘strike a pose’ and virtually no time in hold. Shirley's 10 was a bit random.

Alexandra – Totally agree with Mauve, in places the choreography was more bump and grind than samba. However I felt the judges were hellbent on finding faults which don’t exist to cover up the fact that she dances like a professional.  I imagine they’ll be desperately trying to find footage of the pigeon toes to justify her low score.

Jonnie – didn’t really like the choreography for this, and I think he had some posture issues- especially a sticking-out rear- which the judges overlooked. Love Jonnie, but imo this was overmarked.

Overall I enjoyed the show, but grumpily disagreed with most of the scores and positions on the leaderboard. With all the ties it’s hard to predict who’ll be in the dance off, but I’m hoping it’s Brian and Simon.

Edit - just seen allsewns comment about the judges trying to pull the ringers down - 100% agree.

An enjoyable show and here is how I feel the dances went:-

Davood's Jive had faffing at the start but once underway I thought it was decent. A dance that clearly suited him and should be good enough to keep him out of the dance-off. 7.5

Mollie's Viennese Waltz was danced very well. Only fault was that I spotted some gapping. 8

Simon's Charleston had good performance value but he was out of sync at times and lacked real swivel. Perhaps his best dance since week 1 or 2 though. 6

Debbie's Rumba was danced with good feeling and she held some lovely lines. Thought she was a little shaky on her last walk and getting fed up with that leg flex as lovely as it is. 8

Brian's Jive was good in places and not in others. His kicks lacked snap but caught flavour of dance. 6

Susan's Cha Cha. Well it took her time to get started but on the whole I enjoyed it. However, her enthusiasm tends to see her put too much into it and it becomes frenetic looking. Not her best but not her worst either and undermarked for me. 7

Aston's Viennese Waltz was very good but not sure about his footwork early on but better than last week. 8

Ruth's Samba. Not sure about the start with the prop. She needs to work on arm placement (I spotted that and judges picked up on it). Good bounce and feel to the dance though. 6.5

Gemma's Foxtrot was lovely. Great chemistry between the pair with nice rise and fall. Excellent. 8.5

Joe's Paso Doble was his dance. Led well, had lovely use of his arms with great shapes and knee turns were very good. Perhaps his best dance so far but overmarked for me. 7.5

Alexandra's Samba was an excellent dance. Only thing I noticed were use of her hands were not in right places/angles. 8.5

Jonnie's Quickstep had faffing at the start and balance issues early doors. Aside from that I thought he danced it well. 7.5

It is a toss-up this week on who will be in the dance-off but the obvious choices would be Simon and Brian.

Twirlie wrote:Part of the attraction on Saturday was that fabulous red dress she was wearing. It really did catch the eye. Also, you're right, a lot of it was Oti, but not in the way some of the Pros do, just taking over. I felt she was creating a real partner in Jonnie - a male partner who knows how to show off his female partner especially in the lifts. That's what much of the dancing's about isn't it?

Well put Twirlie. I wanted to elaborate on my initial point when I posted it and say something similar but had to dash off! Oti didn't just use Jonnie as a pole to twirl around - he was very much involved in the routine and was enabling her. But she was the star and that red dress was indeed very striking and memorable.

B4p wrote:

I liked her hair too Twirlie and didn't mind the dress, particularly the bodice.

Me three! I think it's cos in my mind I'd made it a reference to the female characters on The 100 (I'm sure I'm the only person on the planet who watches this lol).