Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Very late to the (non) birthday party for CC, but happy birthday anyway, and hop you had a lovely one

Mauveangel - a lot of good points made in your last two posts. I agree entirely about the dance off and the errors made by Brian. I also agree that whilst Pasha should have been brought to task over some iffy choreography, that is not Chizzy's fault or wihtin her powers to do anything about. Ditto the tune - she was told off for being too sassy - but the tune is all about sassiness so she shouldn;t have been penalised for interpreting the music correctly. And yes, she has rhythm and musicality which Brian completely lacks. Are the judges saying they prefer to see a complex routine done with errors to a simpler one done wihtout mistakes? Where does that leave Gemma and Aljaz? That was a lovely watch precisely because it was simple, all out waltz with not too much for her to think about or get wrong. She delivered...

I too am disappointed in Our Shirl.

And I am totally not surprised that there is a lot of flak out there. In no way shape or form was Chizzy the worst dancer on the night. So, she didn't get enough public votes to save her from the dance-off (prob ebcause she went first and was forgeotten about - again, not actually about her dancing or even her popularity), but she certainly wasn;t the worst dancer in the dance off. Brian can;t dance (and maybe that's a yet...) but Chizzy can and had more to give and more to learn. Being in the Christmas special is a bit of a pants booby prize - they should just make the right decision in the first place.

I am SO grumpy I can't type accurately (sorry )

Here I go onto the tightrope again....put that knife down madame, please.... ..............

Technique. How to begin? Okay. First, we are talking about dance here, moving to music, not regimental rifle-swinging and marching a la the U.S Marine Corp. We're not even talking about sequence stuff, but single pair dancing from a bunch of (in the main) non-dancers. The Chizzy lady, although I've never heard of her till a fortnight ago, had rythmn. She could dance to music and, if she was a victim of anything it was that very same technique that is counting as a criteria. She did dance.This was only week two of the show and, if it's all being done right, the pro partners are the teachers and responsible for everything. I like Pasha a lot, he seems a very nice guy as well as a good dancer. On his side, he had a very heavy partner (it's the honesty thread) who whilst she was amazingle nimble, would have serious restrictions on the cartwheels and splits, athletic and weightlifting to music inevitable extravaganza that will appear soon enough on screen. Maybe he tried a bit of time-wasting (hitherto known as "faffing about") but he had a task on his hands. My point is that there is no level playing field in Strictly. It's about entertainment and public opinion (and judges bias and preference as has been proven times too often. C.R.H is a shining example of just such)...Just take Aston and Jannette. How on earth could the Chizzy lady ever compete with that, or Alexandra or Debbie?

The show is comprised of a few thoroughbreds, a few enthusiasic learners and a few "extras" who are never going to win anything that resembles a Fred and Ginger display however the pro half try.Fred and Wilma, yes. Somebody mentioned Darren Gough. Add Austin Healey, Colin Jackson and Mark Rampakesh and that's what Strictly should be about. Half a dozen of those left now are the next few week's cannon fodder for the judges, with the G.B.P doing their damndest to be the Capulets to the Judges Montagues.It may just be that the judges (maybe even some of the same public who put her in the dance off to start with) have done Chizzy a favour in the long run. Technique is an issue that will ever be beyond some, however much they improve. For me, less rule book and more Jungle Book and either make the cast list compatible to give them all a chance, or reinstate Come Dancing. You can't have it both ways.

Amen..

Week 2 - I've written some thoughts on some of the other threads, but a few of the Pro dancers have stood out for me.
I really enjoyed watching AJ in his Tango. I liked his choreography, and thought he's really settled into the group now, and doesn't look so much the 'little boy lost'.
Br endan has always been protective towards his partners, but I thought he was really going to give Shirley a tongue lashing when she dared to suggest that his choreography might have been too difficult for Charlotte.
I thought Gorka was mesmorising. I hope he doesn't get knocked out too soon, so we get a chance to see more of his routines.
The biggest surprise for me is Giovanni. I haven't liked him so far. Too cheesy, greasy, pushy, arrogant, full of himself etc etc BUT this year, he seems to have mellowed. He seems genuinely surprised by Debbaaaay's talent's so far, and is enjoying showcasing her more than himself. I'm finding myself actually watching him dance now rather than automatically mentally switching off when he appears. I might even go so far to say that the new 'not trying so hard to impress' Gio, is starting to alter my former frosty opinion of him.

We have always had the debate about whether this is a dance competition or a popularity contest and I think most of us agree it is a bit of both and, actually, whatever we want it to be (that's entertainment).

But it has just occurred to me how little time is actually devoted to the dance, i.e. 90 seconds. Before they dance we get more than 90 seconds of film showing them working together, after the dance we get time in the Clauditorium and then more than 90 seconds of judges comments. Throughout the week we see them chatting with Zoe on ITT (for more than 90 seconds). These are all opportunities for us to get to know their personalities and see them bond (or not) with their partners.

Just saying....

Seeing exactly where you are coming from Fifty, but some of the time ratio is a bit magnified right now due to the number of contestants. As the show goes on the format will stay the same, ie, the dance time, but the overall box time reduce as some contestants leave. I think the 90 seconds is about right for action time, short in theory, I agree, but the great art of "Faffing" can, and does, reduce that even further. The pros have to consider the energy levels of their charges (which in some cases has increased the number of undertakers watching the show considerably as they watch contestants coughing and dying after just a minute and a half) Sounds sinful I know, but the producers must be ever desperate to hang on to their ratings in a field where only something new will guarantee box goggling. Because of this and the fact that nothing lasts forever and a generation of "Please may I have this dance" addicts are slowly fading away in favour of fusion both in dance and music, ( Jennifer Lopez and Pitbull? Come on) how long can it actually all go on? Just wondering?

My feelings are if the judges vote for what they see ie more faff less dance content is this wrong? The dreaded DO is supposed to be judged on that dance not the potential of weeks to come. The judges in the past have saved a couple because they offer more to come and I've felt it was wrong.... Pasha chose the choreographer possibly to match the ability of Chizzy? We will never know but he didn't seem over bothered on ITT re exit...
Brian may have less potential and ability than Chizzy again it's a guessing game. He did have more dance content albeit it being Grandad style....
This year with Shirley on board she will go for technique over theatrical performance in the DO and the other sheep oops ie judges may follow her thought process....
I'd like to see once the Judges have decided the actual % of public votes for the two couples revealed. It could be a shock or very close.....

For me it was the right decision.

I suppose one positive that might come out of the emphasis on content in the first DO is that pros will take note and ensure they include more steps and less time-wasting to avoid a similar fate.

Sid I hope so... Far too many routines faff round a Lamport or faff on/off chair/stairs/trapeze! I don't m8nd a set the scene pose in first few seconds after I want to see the dance,steps,hold,posture all improving each week....
I'm aware a lot of celebs previously needed props for confidence/support but did we really need a cannon? Thinking of Russell....
My main concern is theme weeks can add to faffing. Why not limit the time spent with a prop? If used prop week before not allowed another prop the following week.

Could we please fire the music dire choices person as really has sunk to an all time low.... Let the music fit the dance not because it's the current new girlie or boy band number or its the latest summer craze song...... Titanic theme banned totally ...

Sid wrote:I suppose one positive that might come out of the emphasis on content in the first DO is that pros will take note and ensure they include more steps and less time-wasting to avoid a similar fate.

Totally au-fait with that Sid, and I'd expand it to "more recognisable basic steps", where we don't have to guess if we're watching a cha-cha ( a particular villain in the plot), a Charlston or a mambo scene from West Side Story. It would be far easier on the contestants if the pros dropped show-dance flash in favour of some basic dance class stepology (Is that a good word, or not?) Then, the dreaded "technique" might have some real meaning. Elton John has a lot to answer for (Burn the Floor was born for a birthday celebration of his). Start em off with Victor Sylvester and "Mr Sandman" ( only because it was the first tune I ever get dragged up kicking and screaming to dance to at our local youth club) and let's see some dance... Was there ever (in the modern era at least) a finer sight than A nton and E rin doing a tie and tails waltz or foxtrot? If it was good enough for them etc.....

p.s. Why not a few dance emotives to add in to the list?

TANGOLERO wrote:Here I go onto the tightrope again....put that knife down madame, please.... ..............

Technique. How to begin? Okay. First, we are talking about dance here, moving to music, not regimental rifle-swinging and marching a la the U.S Marine Corp. We're not even talking about sequence stuff, but single pair dancing from a bunch of (in the main) non-dancers. The Chizzy lady, although I've never heard of her till a fortnight ago, had rythmn. She could dance to music and, if she was a victim of anything it was that very same technique that is counting as a criteria. She did dance.This was only week two of the show and, if it's all being done right, the pro partners are the teachers and responsible for everything. I like Pasha a lot, he seems a very nice guy as well as a good  dancer. On his side, he had a very heavy partner (it's the honesty thread) who whilst she was amazingle nimble, would have serious restrictions on the cartwheels and splits, athletic and weightlifting to music inevitable extravaganza that will appear soon enough on screen. Maybe he tried a bit of time-wasting (hitherto known as "faffing about")  but he had a task on his hands. My point is that there is no level playing field in Strictly. It's about entertainment and public opinion (and judges bias and preference as has been proven times too often. C.R.H is a shining example of just such)...Just take Aston and Jannette. How on earth could the Chizzy lady ever compete with that, or Alexandra or Debbie?

The show is comprised of a few thoroughbreds, a few enthusiasic learners and a few "extras" who are never going to win anything that resembles a Fred and Ginger display however the pro half try.Fred and Wilma, yes.  Somebody mentioned Darren Gough. Add Austin Healey, Colin Jackson and Mark Rampakesh and that's what Strictly should be about. Half a dozen of those left now are the next few week's cannon fodder for the judges, with the G.B.P doing their damndest to be the Capulets to the Judges Montagues.It may just be that the judges (maybe even some of the same public who put her in the dance off to start with) have done Chizzy a favour in the long run. Technique is an issue that will ever be beyond some, however much they improve. For me, less rule book and more Jungle Book and either make the cast list compatible to give them all a chance, or reinstate Come Dancing. You can't have it both ways.

Amen..

I can't disagree with anything you say Tango!

Howww-evvahhh...... My grump about Chizzygate is that her technique, albeit not particularly wonderful, was a lot better than Brian's, despite the so-called lesser content of her Foxtrot as opposed to Brian's whatever it was (non-recognisable Latin dance; it illustrated amply what you stated about so many dances not having recognisable steps). She had better technique, better rythm, better musicality. In the dance off (let's not bring in any other performance). Brian made mistakes, has no rythm or musicality and though the dance had 'content', he didn;t deliver it well.

Anyway, that's all done with now and nothing anyone can do about it. But I remain concerned that this inconsistency of judging and what/which criteria a couple are judged on at any given time will result in a similar travesty in the weeks to come.

When I am Queen heads will roll... (but i won't watch )

Hmm, we're probably talking twenty years ago but I remember going to see Brian in The Al Jolson Story on the west end stage and he definitely did a lot of singing and dancing so I guess his Dad-dancing must be a result of either his age or nerves.

Chizzy was a better mover, yes, but she only danced for 60 seconds out of the 90 and was out of breath even then so I agree with her comment that everything happens for a reason because she was already getting pains in her knees.

The other thing to remember is that we can probably all identify seven or eight no hopers out of the original line up and they will all be gone by week nine so the order of voting off is a little bit irrelevant (although, I agree, nobody likes to be first).

One ludicrous theory doing the rounds is that voters are racist for placing Chizzy in the bottom two. Oh pleeaase do me a favour. I wonder if they think back to the ethnicity of Ore Oduba or Lewis Smith etc etc.

CaledonianCraig wrote:One ludicrous theory doing the rounds is that voters are racist for placing Chizzy in the bottom two. Oh pleeaase do me a favour. I wonder if they think back to the ethnicity of Ore Oduba or Lewis Smith etc etc.

Yes, C.C, "do me a favour" is dead right. The race card players really get me gibbering....(puts in a gibber emoticon)..
The thing to remember about equality is it highlights the n umber of idiots just as much as the good guys and it's usually just a convenient word for role reversal. One faction calling another in any way shape or form is hypocracy, particularly taking into account where we all live.  Gibber, gibber....

fiftynotout wrote:

Chizzy was a better mover, yes, but she only danced for 60 seconds out of the 90 and was out of breath even then so I agree with her comment that everything happens for a reason because she was already getting pains in her knees.

The other thing to remember is that we can probably all identify seven or eight no hopers out of the original line up and they will all be gone by week nine so the order of voting off is a little bit irrelevant (although, I agree, nobody likes to be first).

Thank you Fifty - that has put a it all into a bit of perspective - which I think I had lost in my grumpiness. You are absolutely right, though I was outraged at the decision to keep Brian over Chizzy, ultimately she would have gone before too long. I think my outrage and grumpiness stems from the fact that I can bear to have Chizzy around for a few more weeks whilst she carries on really enjoying her experience, whilst I am keen to get shot of Brian toot sweet; not sure how much more I can take of him and the lass with the unflattering hair colour (it matters peeps - it really does....)

TANGOLERO wrote:

Totally au-fait with that Sid, and I'd expand it to "more recognisable basic steps", where we don't have to guess if we're watching a cha-cha ( a particular villain in the plot), a Charlston or a mambo scene from West Side Story. It would be far easier on the contestants if the pros dropped show-dance flash in favour of some basic dance class stepology (Is that a good word, or not?) Then, the dreaded "technique" might have some real meaning. p.s. Why not a few dance emotives to add in to the list?

I must confess, I had to look back at the dance list to see what dance a couple of them were supposed to be doing. I couldn't use the music as a clue either.

Can only echo what you say sax & Mr T. Sometimes 'simple but effective' does the trick. Save the flash for later weeks. Hold a little bit back. Keep the audience wanting more.

This actually applies to the front-runners too. Part of me worries Debbie and Alex have given too much too soon and won't be able to live up to or top what they've already produced. We'll see.

So much of this show annoyed me - mostly the judges and in particular that harridan Shirley whateverhernameis, that I must go and cool off and look at the whole show again before I write anything down!!!

Been awaiting some comments, but a few points in the meantime, and I stress that personal opinion isn't expert comment:

Firstly, the movie week seemed designed for Kiddy night with the pros looking and behaving exceptionall silly throwing popcorn about. The movies seemed chosen from Saturday matinees. So....

Molly and A.J, Debbie and Gio, Gemma and Aljaz, Joe and Katya, Aston and Janette (so far ahead in dance talent they should have a handicap, which incidentally would be no bad idea for all the contestants. It would really even things out and make the whole things more competitive if say, after two weeks they were allotted.) Alex and Gorka and Davood and Nadia are all the first team and don't need much comment from me.

Whilst full of admiration for Jonni's achievements, I won't patronise him. That Paso was awful, the choreography was amateur and the dancing, whilst energetic, was sloppy and untidy. Appels? really, or windmills? . I thought Brendan and Charlotte were a tad undermarked (like one more from each judge would haver been nearere the mark) . Susan tried and was quite nimble and Brian danced with a surprising bit of style and didn't do much wrong. Simon needs to come on a lot or he'll get left behind. Richard is John Sargent reborn. What a joke that shambles of a paso was.Camp stomping nonesense for audience gratification.
The exit is looming for quite a few right now, although I wouldn't count A nton amongst them yet. Their rumba was at least clean and tidy, if none exciting with Housewives choice leaping about and doing more paso than rumba. As it stands, Richard,Simon and Susan could well fight a dance off between them tomorrow, but I'll be interested in other views..

Was watching with company this eve and some of what we witnessed was PAINFUL. When my niece asked what "VT's" were, I said: "Very Tedious"  

Joe and Katya were class though. They handled the Dr Zhivago theme just as it should be - like a precious jewel. He's such a wee cutie and they're my Dark Horse couple.

I'm not getting the judge's love-in with Mollie tbh. I thought Debbie was miles better and ended up lower on the table. Maybe they're mindful of and trying to play down her ringer status a bit by manufacturing reasons to mark her more harshly.

Shirley's clearly got a soft spot for Simon too. Wonder if it's the Liverpool connection. But he's been over-marked (stop letting me down Shirley!). That said, I'd rather keep him over the comedy contestants - and Charlotte & Brenda - who aren't really doing it for me this series.

I'm wondering a little bit if Judge S hirley has actually got the hang of the show yet? Compared to the others she seems awfully serious and a little removed from them. I'd like to see her giving the first mark instead of being led by C raig Revel Horseshoe and co. I accept Brun o is from a far distant planet and is wired from somewhere in outer spce, Darcy seems to be mentally seeing the Nutcracker Suite in everything and C raig is auditioning for Ebenezer Scrooge In the Bubble Bath Company Christmas pantomime, but at least they're pretty predictable. Maybe she just needs some time to get used to us, possib ly a bag of Uncle Joe's mintballs and a stiff glass of Root beer would help. She sure isn't an Arlene anyway....

I found it a rather disappointing show. In parts it felt more like ‘low budget B movie night’  than red-carpet glitz and glam.  Some of the costumes were so cheap looking, I reckon ebay probably sell better Buzz Lightyear costumes than that. And the make-up for Simon and Rev looked like a 3 year old had been let loose with crayons. Agree with Sid, some of the VTs were dreadful. Anyway, some brief thoughts…

Simon – rather clunky quickstep, poor posture, overmarked by Shirley (agree with you Sid, suspect she has favourites)
Ruth – good effort, though a bit reminiscent of Victoria Pendleton.
Mollie – enjoyed this routine, though there seemed to be a strange leg in the air during the first lift which I wasn’t sure was intentional.
Rev –oh dear
Debbie -  ooh, a new 10 second rule, imposed by the new rule-master CRH!
Brian – liked the concept, though a bit plodding
Gemma – Aljaz said on ITT  he was going to make sure there was plenty of swivel in this – where was it!
Charlotte – she's better in hold, though looked like she was clinging on for dear life at a couple of points.
Jonnie –Grrr,  love Jonnie but disliked everything about this. The choice of music for a paso, the rushed choreography, the audience clapping along, the guyliner. Everything!
Susan – Watchable
Joe – my favourite dance of the night by far, he (and also Mollie) got my votes. Loved the combination of the Russian costumes, song, stage lighting and choreography.
Aston – great routine, though the long shorts and skinny blue legs somewhat distracted me
Alexandra – surprised none of the judges mentioned her shoulders rising up in places (maybe it was just the jacket she was wearing)
Davood – for once I quite liked the part where he danced on the judges table, it seemed to fit with Travolta. CRH said there was little semblance to a samba, but I’m not sure what else Naydia could’ve choreographed given the music

Not sure who'll be in the dance-off, but there's plenty of contenders for it.

TANGOLERO wrote:I'm wondering a little bit if Judge S hirley has actually got the hang of the show yet? Compared to the others she seems awfully serious and a little removed from them. I'd like to see her giving the first mark instead of being led by C raig Revel Horseshoe and co. I accept Brun o is from a far distant planet and is wired from somewhere in outer spce, Darcy seems to be mentally seeing the Nutcracker Suite in everything and C raig is auditioning for Ebenezer Scrooge In the Bubble Bath Company Christmas pantomime, but at least they're pretty predictable. Maybe she just needs some time to get used to us, possib ly a bag of Uncle Joe's mintballs and a stiff glass of Root beer would help. She sure isn't an Arlene anyway....

So true!

TANGOLERO wrote:

Whilst full of admiration for Jonni's achievements, I won't patronise him. That Paso was awful, the choreography was amateur and the dancing, whilst energetic, was sloppy and untidy. Appels? really, or windmills? . I thought Brendan and Charlotte were a tad undermarked (like one more from each judge would haver been nearere the mark) . Susan tried and was quite nimble and Brian danced with a surprising bit of style and didn't do much wrong. Simon needs to come on a lot or he'll get left behind. Richard is John  Sargent reborn. What a joke that shambles of a paso was.Camp stomping nonesense for audience gratification.
The exit is looming for quite a few right now, although I wouldn't count A nton amongst them yet. Their rumba was at least clean and tidy, if none exciting with Housewives choice leaping about and doing more paso than rumba. As it stands, Richard,Simon and Susan could well fight a dance off between them tomorrow, but I'll  be interested in other views..

This sums up my views so well - As the Rev was dancing I was just thinking - 'John Sargent'
Jingle - I also had the same thought as you that CRH was playing the 'rules magister' tonight!!!! why? 10 second rule?? He's never cared a jot for any of the finer points of ballroom and latin before this year??

As for Shirl - I was a bit bemused by some of what she came out with tonight much of it seemingly directed at the pros - I was also left wondering - did she 'get' movie night?

With regard to the performances - on a positive note I think we are going to get a really good contest as the weeks progress this year, as there are more than a few couples who I think show promise and are rising up the ranks to challenge the early front runners - and that can only be a good thing! My personal favourite performances tonight were Mollie and AJ (big surprise for me), Debbie and Gio, and Joe and Katya.

Simon- Hasn't made much of an impression on me so far - I do think that he showed some progress tonight and he made a good effort. Timing was good but it was ploddy and overmarked.

Ruth - Looked sensational and I thought it was by no means a dis-ah-ster - I liked the routine - the footwork was good and they attempted a traditional rumba. My problem with Ruth is that I feel she does all the steps correctly but needs to put 100% more exaggeration and energy into it - she then would be rather good.

Mollie - I was expecting this to be awful - given the strange track - I couldn't have been more wrong. I thought the musical arrangement was really good and I enjoyed the slow fox trot American smooth routine very much. Something different from AJ. I did think she was a bit of rag doll on the lifts but a lovely routine nonetheless.

Rev - Nothing to add to everyone else's comments. Where did they get that wig? He looked like he was wearing a fancy dress costume from a hire shop.

Debbie - Wow! This was pure Hollywood - I think they captured the mood perfectly and it was a great routine - she did well with all the fast Quick steps. Didn't understand the judges slightly mixed comments - particularly Shirley and CRH. This was one of the dances of the night for me - Debbie was pure Ginger Rodgers.

Brian - A routine made for Brian. Pleasantly surprised. Well danced with loads of character and he attempted some lifts. An improvement.

Gemma - Loved the routine - could have done with some more swivel and I couldn't stop watching Alijaz in that suit!

Charlotte - Oh dear - B rendan and Shirley should remember that there is a celebrity in the middle of their little spat - and a celebrity that danced quite well tonight. Shirley invited B rendan to play the routine back - I did so and I did not see any rise and fall as she mentioned. I saw a quite acceptable Tango - ok so she did hold onto him for dear life at some points but I thought they looked good and danced well - she is a ballroom girl no doubt. it was worth more marks than Shirley's scorn which she couldn't rein in.

Jonnie - Agree with Mr T again. This left me distinctly underwhelmed, don't know what the judges were gushing about - hate to say but to me it was a wooden performance, his arms were all wrong.

Susan - you've got to give it to Kevin, he is always creative and where this was lacking in technique, it had performance. They match together well, their similar height helps and it is nice to see Kevin being more himself. I think Susan will be around for a few weeks yet.

Joe and Katya - Wow! What can I say? A big beautiful Viennese Waltz. One of the dances of the night for me.

Janette and Aston - a dance by two professionals in a different league. Great to watch but what did she actually have to teach him? I want to see how he fares with traditional ballroom however.

Gorka and Alex - Enjoyed this one - saw a bit more warmth between them.

Davood and Nadiya - fun routine and I enjoyed his portrayal of John Travolta - loads of hips but I thought there was too much gyrating and too little samba - although it was quite bouncy and there were some running promenades - I'm not sure about Nadiya as a teacher. I noticed that Shirl did not criticise for the lack of dance content though!!!

Jingle so right about that God awful Buzz Lightyear poor cheap copy outfit. It ducked big time, hated the make up & the faff at end in vharness. Thought most of tonight's costumes dire and lack lustre.
If you are going to be just picky to the same couple Shirley each week then sorry it's a 0 from me. Inconsistent marking doesn't reflect your spoken words....

Well, I managed to enjoy the show despite the silly outfits and general mucking about.  I started watching it only a few minutes late which meant I could fast forward all of B.runo's comments (yay!) but still have time to vote.  And my vote went to Susan.  She made me laugh out loud (in a good way), I felt she might be vulnerable and I still want to see more from her.

Some other thoughts from the show:-

- I hated Simon's costume

- Yes, Rev has a touch of the John Sergeants

- I actually missed L.en (first time I've even thought about him this year)

- I thought the judges were particularly harsh on Charlotte (when she needed a pick me up this week)

Other than that, nothing really stood out.  No great drama or surprises.  Not sure who will be in the dance off but, for me, it should be Simon and Revo.