Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

diamondsandpearls Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:28 pm

Well I got out a big ole shovel and delved away and found this:

and this:

Both of them are nicer than Debbie's dress(obviously, just to my eyes). Victoria's is the same colours, but the tan and the black work better for me in this design. Also, there is no red underskirt froufrou to fight with the tan colour. Also, the neckline and the sleeveless ness off it look nicer. Also... there is an extra bit of skirt which acts as arm-waftage. Marvellous. Lisa's dress is stunning. The black and white, the feathers, the halter neck... unbelievably gorgeous.

diamondsandpearls Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:42 pm

Sid wrote:
CC - I get what you're saying, I'm just going by what they've each arrived at Strictly with on paper. Other factors also play a part of course. For example, some will inevitably take more naturally to Ballroom & Latin dancing than others. But Joe's not a complete novice to the world of performance and dance that's for sure.

I am very interested by the ringer debate. I had thought that, because Mollie was in the Saturdays, along with Frankie - who was clearly a ringer - that she was a ringer with a more perfromance-led background. This was true for Frankie - she was a proper stage school kid who joined S Club junior before moving on to the Saturday. But Mollie was always solely a singer. Sure she performs with the Saturdays and has to emote songs, and do some ABC type dance routines, but it's not the same as Frankie's experience. And it has really showed...

Alex was like Mollie too - solely a singer, who came to fame because she won a reality contest. Her stage jobs have been won on the quality of her singing. Nonetheless, in more recent years she has been given acting and dancing lessons (otherwise she couldn't have performed her stage roles). I would say she is more of a natural dancer adn brings that very much to the table. Mollie basically spends literally half her life in dance training at the moment and she is still not smashing it. So even though Alex has had more training overall, with her lessons for her stage roles, I kinda think Mollie would just never be as good. Some of it is always going to be about natural ability. For example, despite her singing ability, I doubt Mollie would be cast as Sandy in Grease because of the other skills required, which she lacks and probably will never quite get, despite a gazillion lessons (I will now be proved wrong and the next itme we hear of Mollie it will be because she has been cast as Sandy in Grease...)

Joe on the other hand has been an actor forever (I used to watch him in Take the High Road when he nobbut a wee lad). This will certainly give him a big head start on the performance side of things. I'm not sure how much hoofing he has done previously though - anybody know?

But it so interesting how some people get plugged as ringers from the start and nobody cares too much (eg Danny Mac) and others are given the hardest of hard times (Alexandra) and yet others are not seen as ringers when they have had just as much ringerish experience as the others... Spin and PR has such a lot to answer for...

CaledonianCraig Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:51 pm

diamondsandpearls wrote:

But it so interesting how some people get plugged as ringers from the start and nobody cares too much (eg Danny Mac) and others are given the hardest of hard times (Alexandra) and yet others are not seen as ringers when they have had just as much ringerish experience as the others... Spin and PR has such a lot to answer for...

Believe you me it bothers me greatly. For me I watch to see them learn to dance from scratch, from no previous dance training/experience.

I get your point about Mollie but she is like a few others we have seen on Strictly. She really lacks confidence/belief in her dance skills. That is obvious when she can always be heard whispering to AJ: 'Sorry.' That is even if she has danced well. She'll take criticism to heart (saw that last night as she was crying as judge's were not overly complimentary) and lets that drag her down I think. That is what really holds her back I would say.

mauveangel09 Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:10 pm

Re Victoria Pendleton - yay!! My memory served me well - thinking about the American skyline in the background.
Think I might have been a bit wrong about Lisa in that I think the dress I was thinking of was the same style but was in blue and they wore it for their Tango Very Happy

BTW - always thought that Joe would have had some sort of movement training at stage School, which as an actor boy I realized he must have attended. I've liked him from the get go so it doesn't matter - but I'm surprised that it has gone under the radar -c although with Aston and Alex in the show, perhaps not so surprising as what it might have been on another year. However, he hasn't been doing musical theatre or music based stuff currently - that is the ringer decider for me - along with the fact that he did take awhile to find himself, as did Mollie who on paper could also be classed as a bit of ringer as has been pointed out. For me it's all about currency and recent experience.

CaledonianCraig Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:04 pm

Semi Result:

diamondsandpearls Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:12 pm

Well, despite me predicting the result and despite me agreeing with it on paper, I find I am nonetheless disgruntled.

I think B4p summed it up for me - the lack of confidence and self-belief. I identify with that so very much and I think that all along I have been aligning myself with her because of that, even if I haven't understood that until now. I like to think that I go on dance ability plus other stuffl like likeability, charisma etc like- not JUST the other stuff. And because I knew she wasn't going to get in the final I have been finding it hard to gee myself up about the final.

Anyway, she was very gracious and yes, I am very sorry to say goodbye to her.

diamondsandpearls Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:20 pm

Also...

The opening dance which they went on about being so NEW! So ORIGINAL! Well...

Ain't nothin' new under the sun!

(I couldn't get a clip with the original music sadly, and it only shows a smnall amount of lindy hop style dancing, but even so, the idea is there... Nearly 90 years before Strictly...

B4p Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:42 pm

diamondsandpearls wrote: Maybe some arm-wafts (they really have been put away in the cupboard -haven't seen them for several series..)

That's cos I snuck in, found the cupboard, and burnt the bally lot of them. Arm flags, double-triple yuk! Evil or Very Mad

mauveangel09 Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:57 pm

Well for me it was the right result - I always think that things have a way of working themselves out on SCD and I think we saw that this weekend........ then in the final it is a level playing field and is up for any of them to win (or lose).

Very happy that both Joe and Debbie got through - Alex deserved a place on merit. The DO was that which was predicted and Gemma scraped through. I really like Mollie, I think she had a really good and interesting J - she made lots of progress over the weeks and it was great to watch - as was the maturing of AJ - compared to the way he was last year. For me Mollie was a worthy semi-finalist and did really well.

B4p Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:21 pm

I still haven't seen the result show although I know the outcome. I was outvoted and that jungle programme was on instead!
I think Molly did as well as she could, and can hold her head up as she leaves. She was struggling to chase the pack, and her time was up. Gemma shows her nerves more than the other finalists. I hope she can hold it together to make it a good battle and not a fait accompli.

allsewnonbyhand Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:54 pm

It was indeed the right result in the end, although I would have been satisfied with either of them going. I still think Mollie could have stood a chance if C?raig hadn't been so outrageous with his 4 for the first dance- that totally knocked her confidence. It's not totally his fault obvs, but I think it contributed. Ah well it's done now, and we have some great dancers to look forward to. I've kinda forgotten Aston, strange to think that Mollie saw him off, which was the right decision on the night.
I'm firmly rooting for Joe and from all the polls I've seen, he's streets ahead in popularity from the others. But if he doesn't wow me and someone else does, I'll vote for them. ( call me fickle) that said I fully expect Katya to pull out all the stops for their show dance.

Can't believe this time next week it will all be over for another year. I think we should keep the tartan lounge open all year for those who want to check in and chat during the off season.

jingle Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:02 pm

Oh poop. I can't remember being so disappointed at a contestant leaving before, or so completely disinterested in watching the final Crying or Very sad

Mollie epitomised everything I enjoy about Strictly - a steady improver with a genuine love of learning, a great relationship with her partner and a lovely self-deprecating personality. I know she was the weakest dancer, but the final has lost its sparkle in my eyes now.

If there's a positive - I imagine if she'd made it through tonight she'd be facing a backlash by now, so at least she's left very graciously and been spared that.

TANGOLERO Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:32 pm

My biggest worry tonight was that they'd put Mollie through and leave Gemma in a dance off she couldn't win. Glad it didn't happen that way or I'd be making a wax doll of someone and getting some large nails. Mollie did so well but a waltz against a tango may not be the best of weapons to fight with. She danced really well, but so did Gemma and next week only one can win, so which will hurt most, leaving tonight ot losing in the final? A shame in some respects, but I think the result was right. Good luck to all of them but I'll still be rooting for the underdogs.

Sid Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:14 am

Sorry your girl's out Jingle - Mollie did her fans - and mostly herself - proud, not just in the Dance Off (which I don't think she could have performed any better) but with her exit speech. She was a class act. I won't miss my phone autocorrecting her to Millie every time though!

I thought the DO was impossible to call if I'm honest and the judges went with Gemma because she was stronger overall and had more options for the final.

diamonds - you summed up the ringer debate so well. It's more nuanced than "X" is going to have a clear advantage just because they've done this or been in that. It doesn't always transpire. Even in the case of Debbie, her extensive ballet training actually works against her in dances that require her to get more into the floor and bend the legs. Helen George had the same problem. I've noticed that in general (but not always), the female ringers tend to get a tougher time of it - certainly in the press. I remember the backlash against DVO got so bad that I ended up actually rooting for her towards the end even though she was paired with that eejit Jordan. Oh and Lisa's VW dress is up there in my Top 5.

Tappingfeet Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:17 am

C raig spoiled the night for me again with his mean spirited 4 for Mollie . I got into a mood then and couldn't shake it.Strictly is for a Saturday night feel good and not to be taken so seriously like C raig .I have come to the conclusion that C raig doesn't like the pretty young things who are quiet and mannerly .He like the brash in your face Lisa Riley , Alison Hammond , Judge Rinder , Russel Grant types .I do wonder why .
But I sat and watched again and skipped all his bits and really enjoyed it on second go . Yes. my favourite Mollie wasn't good and in fairness was the right one to go but i loved that waltz , it was beautiful and so soft and gentle .And her goodbye speech was beautiful and classy

Now my full weight of support is for Joe and Katya they are just wonderful and I could watch them all night long .

And was Shirley actually asking C raig how to say goncho or was she correcting how he had said it ? She reminds me so much of my second grade teacher who was also very correct and very very teachery !

CaledonianCraig Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:48 am

I have noticed quite frequently when he gets his 4 paddle out. If we look back through the series it comes out for those who he wants out regardless of whether the dance merited more or not. He thinks waving a four will subsequently ensure they end up at,the bottom of the leaderboard and be one step closer to elimination.

diamondsandpearls Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:50 pm

Jingle wrote:Mollie epitomised everything I enjoy about Strictly - a steady improver with a genuine love of learning, a great relationship with her partner and a lovely self-deprecating personality. I know she was the weakest dancer, but the final has lost its sparkle in my eyes now.

This. Precisely this, Jingle. I knew it wouldn't work with her getting into the final, but now she isn't there I feel as flat as an ironing board :-(

Tappingfeet wrote:C raig spoiled the night for me again with his mean spirited 4 for Mollie . I got into a mood then and couldn't shake it.Strictly is for a Saturday night feel good and not to be taken so seriously... .....Yes. my favourite Mollie wasn't good and in fairness was the right one to go but i loved that waltz , it was beautiful and so soft and gentle .And her goodbye speech was beautiful and classy

It was so clear with this that he wanted her out. Even if he had matched B.runo's 6 (which was a bit measly coming from him) it would only have made two points difference and thus no differnece to the leader board positions, and probably the final outcome. But that 4 really rocked Mollie and it was harsh, unfair, unnecessary and yes, exactly as you say Tapping, mean-spirited. And I totally agree with you about the Waltz and her goodbye speech.

I wish I could get as behind Joe as I was a couple of weeks ago as then I would be able to be into the final. But... I've lost my enthusiasm for them somehow. Sad

Mainly because of Katya I think.

Sid Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:34 pm

diamondsandpearls wrote:I wish I could get as behind Joe as I was a couple of weeks ago as then I would be able to be into the final. But... I've lost my enthusiasm for them somehow. Mainly because of Katya I think.

I need her to screech and squeal 80% less.

I'm still pro-Joe but (and I admit this is somewhat influenced by the chatter on my Twitter feed at the moment), I am a bit miffed that his background has been completely ignored and the women have taken all the hits. He's not a complete novice to the world of dance and performing but that's very much the narrative that's been created for him and it's not entirely honest. Still leaning towards wanting to see him win but that doesn't stop me being a bit critical of how the series storyline surrounding him has unfolded compared to Alex and Debs.

B4p Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:42 pm

Tappingfeet wrote:was Shirley actually asking C raig how to say goncho or was she correcting how he had said it ? She reminds me so much of my second grade teacher who was also very correct and very very teachery !

She worried me a bit then. I thought hang on there just one minute, you're the head judge, yet you don't know a gaucho from a gancho?

If Dar cey says 'clean and crisp and even' one more time I think I'll burst into Good King Wenceslas. santa

TANGOLERO Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:48 pm

I like Darcy in a lot of ways, but few are to admire her ballroom dance knowlege. She's very attractive, ex world class ballerina, enthusiastic, speaks well, gorgeous figure, dresses excellently and smiles delightfully. I'm not really sure she knows much about ballroom at all and all her terms sound to be from her ballet notebook rather than the L en G oodman Hammersmith Palis "walnut pickling, throw em in the air" dance manual. If she had a fiver for every time she has said "core or hips " she'd be able to retire tomorrow. I really do like her but she seems to be taking a lead from all the others, even how to shimmy into the room. Wink

diamondsandpearls Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:08 pm

AND ANOTHER THING....!

*stomps in wearing her glitter wellies and a tutu, a scowly frown on face, her arms folded defiantly and shouting very crossly indeed*

WHY ARE THERE FOUR PEOPLE IN THE FINAL?

I DON'T LIKE IT AND IT IS MAKING ME EVEN MORE GRUMPY THAN I ALREADY AM FOLLOWING MOLLIE GOING.

ONE OF THE OTHERS SHOULD LEAVE TOO.

I'm done now. I'm going.

*Picks up the skirt of her tutu and flounces off, chin in the air....*

Sid Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:32 pm

diamondsandpearls wrote:AND ANOTHER THING....!

*stomps in wearing her glitter wellies and a tutu, a scowly frown on face, her arms folded defiantly and shouting very crossly indeed*

WHY ARE THERE FOUR PEOPLE IN THE FINAL?

I DON'T LIKE IT AND IT IS MAKING ME EVEN MORE GRUMPY THAN I ALREADY AM FOLLOWING MOLLIE GOING.

ONE OF THE OTHERS SHOULD LEAVE TOO.

I'm done now. I'm going.

*Picks up the skirt of her tutu and flounces off, chin in the air....*

I'm 100% joining you on this diamonds - tutu an' all!

3 COUPLE FINALS WORK BETTER AND I WANT TO KNOW WHO FINISHED WHERE.

diamondsandpearls Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:51 pm

Sid wrote:

I'm 100% joining you on this diamonds - tutu an' all!

3 COUPLE FINALS WORK BETTER AND I WANT TO KNOW WHO FINISHED WHERE.

Yes. Exactly. And my cousin agrees too. And she is a woman who will not be messed with.

And thanks for the lovely image of you (Sid in Vincent incarnation) in a tutu Smile

I recommend the glittery wellies too...

saxonsiren Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:36 pm

Diamonds where forth art thine Tiara

diamondsandpearls Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:39 pm

saxonsiren wrote:Diamonds where forth art thine Tiara

I was in such a mood I forgot to retireve it from the dressing up box....

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Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty