Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

We're having an interesting discussion on another thread ( see CCs post) about ringers etc. For me although I loved the earlier Susan dances, she's becoming a bit meh for me now, and I wouldn't be sorry to see her , Ruth, or Davood go next. I couldn't be bothered to throw her a lifeline vote on Saturday. I'm so fickle! They have to earn my sympathy vote either by throwing themselves joyfully into a dance or surprising me with an unexpectedly good performance

It's the honesty thread, rememeber...so....

We've just lost one honest guy in Simon (quite fairly, because he's reached his "podium" (a nod to Alexander Armstrong and Pointless) and Brian C has already departed to Baron Hardup's castle, or somewhere in Panto land , but I'm hearing the strains of Elton John's "Crocodile Rock" in the background every time a contestant says what a wonderful time they're having and how they can't bear the thought of leaving, sniff, sniff. You may think this a little (lot) cynical, but being paid an enormous sum to learn to dance with pros isn't exactly on a par with other forms of spending a working week (several) so that isn't to much of "No shxt Sherlock" involved.I have a nasty feeling that there won't be any ringer tears splashing on the maple deck for the simple reason they'll go sailing merrily through to the final. I'd really love to be wrong, but, like it or no, they are a reality and who effectively will be good enough to challenge Aston and Alexandra? I agree with some other views that Debbie may have reached her zenith, and Jonni too perhaps-could be wrong of course- but the pack is a little less threatening than in the days of Marc Ramps, Austin Healey, Louis Smith, Colin Jackson, Matt Dawson and co, to name just the males. Watch the bookies odds start to tumble very soon.

Well I hear the Mission Impossible music for Davood, Jonnie, Susan and Ruth. They are in a category below the rest. And if they ended up in the dance-off with any of the ringers they would be dead meat. I couldn't see any of the judges throwing them a lifeline over Aston, Alexandra or Debbie. Their only chance of becoming true contenders is making a massive leap in standards which I don't think either have it in them. Those four and perhaps Mollie are now in their own fight for survival without even being in the same tank as the better dancers.

It's interesting, I think Jonnie, Susan and Ruth are certainly in the bottom category. Davood, Mollie and even my favourite, Gemma (who I'm afraid isn't going to get any better I dont' think), are in the middle and I wouldn't like to say which of them will go first. It all depends on who they end up in the DO with. As to the top tier, I think Aston and Alex are pretty well assured a place in the final, but whether or not Joe or Debbie joins them there is less certain. Many people here seem to think that Debbie is ready to go, but I'm not sure I understand why. She's been at the top of the leaderboard 3 times now and 2nd once. I'd have thought she was a shoe-in for the quarter or even semi-final. It's whether or not she makes the final that's up for debate. What I'd really like to see is Alex and Aston end up in a DO against each other. That'd really set the cat among the pigeons!!

I've just had a quick look at the Oddschecker site. The bookies are all favouring Gemma above Joe. Where did that come from?

Twirlie wrote:I've just had a quick look at the Oddschecker site. The bookies are all favouring Gemma above Joe. Where did that come from?

All about favouritism Twirlie. Joe is the better dancer, Gemma is Gemma with nine feet long legs and..er other things in her favour, like Alijaz for one....As for Debbie, good luck to her, but she'll be be just turning sixty and will she have the stamina to last out? Sure, she can still do the splits and kick her hat off and dance a bit, but energy wise? All very uncertain.

TANGOLERO wrote:As for Debbie, good luck to her, but she'll be be just turning sixty and will she have the stamina to last out? Sure, she can still do the splits and kick her hat off and dance a bit,  but energy wise?  All very uncertain.

I don't know. She's 59 today but I think she'll cope. At 57 I was doing very energetic dancing 8 times a week. Not as supple as Debbie obviously, but at 17 stone, a certain amount of effort was required to keep going. I think the more effort you put in the greater your stamina. She only has to keep going a few more weeks. I think she'll easily manage that. Even rehearsing the panto at the same time will be OK for her. She won't be on stage a massive amount of the time so she won't be needed for a huge amount of rehearsal time, and panto rehearsals are only 1 or 2 weeks long.

I'm thinking it's either Aston or Alexandra in the final hopefully the former. Gemma and Joe the remaining two... Debbie think will go in semi final The battle of the 'A's" not to be confused with "Battle of the Ba##@@d's" Oh what an epic it was....

saxonsiren wrote:I'm thinking it's either Aston or Alexandra in the final hopefully the former. Gemma and Joe the remaining two... Debbie think will go in semi final The battle of the 'A's" not to be confused with "Battle of the Ba##@@d's" Oh what an epic it was....

This would be Battle of the Ringers. i am hoping Gemma and Joe are the final two standing. Well i can but dream.

Much as I enjoy watching Aston & Alexandra, my votes will be going to Joe & Gemma

Me too B4P - definitely Joe and Gemma over Aston and Alexandra - particularly Alexandra.

My other finalist would be Debbie - I think she is in fine form and as long as she doesn't run out of energy I can't see any reason why she hasn't got a very good chance of being there. I actually don't think anyone is a 'shoe in' for the final - last year Ore's performances were spikey with some being quite weak - I wasn't quite sure he would make it until he actually did - which I found quite exciting about the contest last year (in contrast to the year before). In the year that she won, I don't think it was apparent at this point in the competition that Caroline Flack would be a potential winner - she was mid-field and was in a dance off and then suddenly 'took off' in the latter part of the competition. Gemma reminds me a bit of both Caroline (and Abbey in some respects) so I don't think we should write off her or any of what I call the 'chase pack' .

The other thing we should consider is that for the years immediately preceding last year there were four finalists - it reverted to three last year after Will Young left the competition meaning one less competitor.

I wonder if it would revert to 4 finalists again? Not sure if Mollie would stop Debbie in semi final... Hoping Jonnie has a late surge similar to Caroline/Abby... This week settles mid table Davood/Ruth/Susan possibly Jonnie if a bad dance... Mollie might get a bounce vote as people suprised she was there in the DO....

Plumping Housewives choice and Kevin make Blackpool so Davood as one in do with possible shock couple again

saxonsiren wrote:

Plumping Housewives choice and Kevin make Blackpool so Davood as one in do with possible shock couple again

I'd like to see A nton reach the Tower Ballroom this time as I think this might be his very last chance to get there. Family and his age, plus the touring show, will probably see him make way for a younger pro next year ( very sadly as he's the epitome of both ballrom dance and being a gentleman. In both, he's a hero in my eyes). A job as judge would be perfect for him both in experience and personality. As far as Ruth is concerned, as a knowlegable dance pro he'll know she's just about reached a level that's very decent, but not quite good enough to compete at the sharp end. They need the G.B.P votes. A perfect final would see Joe or Gemma win over the two who are almost certs to be in the finals with them.

Regarding age in pro dance, (as in the A nton case) it's actually more about outside opinion and preference than physicality. Many a pro could go on at the top based on skill levels of dance if gymnastics were abandoned and the younger generation didn't mistake sex appeal with being part of dance ability and the fact that life ends at twenty nine. Come on, somebody invents a new miracle skin anti-ager and a new wonder toothpaste/cream, shampoo etc, every single year and have done since Cleopatra. (Or, in the modern era, since Mrs Dale's Diary no longer reigned as the "must follow" guide to life, and fake everything became the norm). Realistically, fame is as shallow as a rain puddle and age, like time and tide, waits for no one. If you can do it, then do it and to hell with fashion and rules, although what the next generation of Aragorn and Bathshebas will do when Tattoos become unfashionable I dread to think.

In passing: A couple of rant items not totally relevant here but not worthy of a seperate thread:
I'd like to apply something very "hot" to all the media clowns who use that word along with "Get the look" to promote their own frustrated sexual fantasies. If you're hot, buy a fan. (Not sure how any "celebrities" can be hot when they mainly hardly wear any clothes anyway?), and if you need a fashion "guru" (and I use that word in the loosest possible sense - like a Mecano set with no nuts and bolts- to tell wearing gloves, a wooly scarf and a sheepsking coat is "cool" ...

Oh, and why do womenfolk suddenly all need "personal trainers" down the Gym ( and men see being one as full-time employment, and students think "Sports Science and "Media Studies" are University degree accolades) to even exist? Get a grip, the lot of you, and join a dance class.

Okay, that's it.

saxonsiren wrote:I'm thinking it's either Aston or Alexandra in the final hopefully the former. Gemma and Joe the remaining two... Debbie think will go in semi final The battle of the 'A's" not to be confused with "Battle of the Ba##@@d's" Oh what an epic it was....

Nope. You've got me...  What/who were/are the Ba##@@d's?

Re Aston and Alexandra...  I again I seem to be a lone wolf in preferring Alex over Aston.  There is something cold about Aston, whereas Alex is definitely a bit of a try-hard but I think some of that is down to her personaility and some of that is down to doing it for her Mum.  Also, she hasn't gone on and on about how she has never danced before like Aston - who seems to think that we will beleive that just because you are good at one style of dancing you will find another style as hard as people who have never danced before... Also - Gorka....

Re A.nton...  For so long he was in my Agin team.  But he has totally exonerated himself this year.  He is the perfect partner for Ruth - pushing her very, very gently but not overdoing it and not going down the comedy route and just giving up on her.  His routines with her have been full of proper dance content with all the basics and he is encouraging and supportive of her, and protective too.  For that reason, I too would like to see him get to Blackpool - even though I don;t think Ruth really deserves a place based on her ability.

Re Debbie...  Stamina, schamina!  Us women get MORE stamina as we grow older, and whilst we probably peak in our forties (for stamina, not speed - that's totally different), the drop off rate is surprisingly gradual.  I read a whole book about it (a proper book based on scientific research and everything!) and it made surprising but encouraging reading. Debbie is a fit 59 year old.  She is very flexible.  She is used to a hectic schedule.  I don't think she will find it a great deal harder than she did when she was 45.  Our local 55 year old fell runner is club champion  in the top five in the National Championships (of ALL women - not just in her age group - and that is despite a chronic back condition).. For fell running you need an incredible amount of stamina and grit (especially if you have a painful back).  It takes a bit of age to build that stamina up.  Another woman, at 65, is way faster than many half her age, but only ove rthe longer distances.  As I said, speed if for the young, but stamina (in women) comes with a bit more maturity and winds down very gradually indeed.  So Yay for me - looks like I might get better on the fells!  And yay for Debbie too - it's not all over for her

My final four (if the world was kind and fair place) would be Joe, Debbie, Gemma and Jonnie.  If Jonnie unavailable then Mollie...  Most years I haven;t minded a bit of ringer-dom, but like Caroline Flack, these two this year are not really floating my boat.  But of the two I prefer Alex (and did I mention GOrka???)

Nope. You've got me...  What/who were/are the Ba##@@d's?


Hi Diamonds it's from G. O . T aka Game of Thrones stunning episode re Jon Snow (not the newsreader but Kit Harrington who if appears on SCD with say Ramsey and Joffrey my head might explode )

I'm not keen on any of the 2 A's but if have to choose then male A!
I agree Mr T A.non has got the best out of Ruth and he would make a fantastic presenter or judge on SCD next year.... We need a ballroom easy going and positive to all...

I think A nton has had a really good season so far in terms of suitable music, costumes and choreography. Although Ruth might not be one of the best - I've really enjoyed all their routines. I hope they hang on to Blackpool - but not sure as she is one of the less strong ones that are left now.

Even though she's probably bottom of the pack in terms of ability, if you compare where they all were at the start and where they all are now, I'd say Ruth's possibly come the furthest (maybe with the exception of Gemma). She's a totally different woman to the one consumed by stage fright during her first dance.

Sid wrote:Even though she's probably bottom of the pack in terms of ability, if you compare where they all were at the start and where they all are now, I'd say Ruth's possibly come the furthest (maybe with the exception of Gemma). She's a totally different woman to the one consumed by stage fright during her first dance.

I agree Sid. Her anxiety level has come down a level, and her enjoyment has helped her dance skills go up a level. An ton is playing a blinder.

I love Ruth...and the way her son is there every week with Eamonn cheering her on.
Can I just say something that seems a little un-PC...I've been looking through B4s list of what dances are left. How the heck is Jonnie going to do a Charleston swivel? I mean surely that does come from the feet rather than anywhere else which is obviously going to hinder him. Will Oti ditch it if she can?

allsewnonbyhand wrote:I love Ruth...and the way her son is there every week with Eamonn cheering her on.
Can I just say something that seems a little un-PC...I've been looking through B4s list of what dances are left. How the heck is Jonnie going to do a Charleston swivel? I mean surely that does come from the feet rather than anywhere else which is obviously going to hinder him. Will Oti ditch it if she can?

I think there are inevitably going to be dances that are technically beyond Jonnie. C.raig alluded to it when he said that the cha cha cha didn;t suit Johnny. I wondered myself if he would have been better with the blade - the springiness of it perhaps would have allowed him to push into the floor more and allowed hip movement. But I imagine the charleston swivel isn't going to be possible with either the blade or the prosthetic and is the dance that Oti will dump. (BTW - LOVED her on ITT when they showed her calling Jonny 'Danny'...)

diamondsandpearls wrote:(BTW - LOVED her on ITT when they showed her calling Jonny 'Danny'...)

That was hilarious, the Strictly equivalent of screaming out your ex's name during nookie.

Cor blimey, I turn my back for five minutes and all these interesting discussions have been going on without me!

Two things for me to throw into the mix:

First, I was wondering out loud to hubby the other day whether I would bother to watch Strictly if this was the first year it had been aired and we were having to put up with cheesy scripted VTs, OTT pros, B.runo on speed (joke) and Tess/Claud as Co-presenters. He says I would because I like the human interest element and the j.ourney but I’m not so sure.

Secondly, now that we can see the wood for the trees, I’m rooting for Gemma and Mollie in the final, probably with Debbie. A & A simply too good and the rest haven’t exactly set my telly on fire......

fiftynotout wrote:Cor blimey, I turn my back for five minutes and all these interesting discussions have been going on without me!

Two things for me to throw into the mix:

First, I was wondering out loud to hubby the other day whether I would bother to watch Strictly if this was the first year it had been aired and we were having to put up with cheesy scripted VTs, OTT pros, B.runo on speed (joke) and Tess/Claud as Co-presenters.  He says I would because I like the human interest element and the j.ourney but I’m not so sure.

Secondly, now that we can see the wood for the trees, I’m rooting for Gemma and Mollie in the final, probably with Debbie.  A & A simply too good and the rest haven’t exactly set my telly on fire......

I know what you mean Fifty, about turning your back and so much going on in your absence!

It is an interesting point you raise about whether I would watch if it was the first series... I don't really think I can truthfully say one way or another, but I do remember the first series that I watched all the way through was in 2005. I saw a couple of later episodes of series one and decided it wasn;t for me... I was away travelling the following winter, so it was series 3 when I decided to give it another go and was hooked. It was the series Zoe was in - and I confess to be rooting for her and Colin in equal measure. I tried to vote by phone but there was something wrong with the lines and I couldn;t get through. I was gutted when Goughy won! (Love Lilia but Gough never did it for me...) Also thought that Zoe's was the best show dance. Anyway, digressing.... Part o fthe reason I was hooked was that I discovered ITT. In those days it seemed a much looser, more genuinely fun (rather than all the, what seems like, forced laughter you hear in the background at the moment). And I fell madly and irretrievably in love with Claudia.... So I watched the following year and haven't looked back since. I watched because I have always loved dancing - both watching and doing it. Though quite a shy child, I would quite happily dance, quite unselfconciously at the drop of a hat, no matter who was watching (or not). I still love all things dance, though, apart from a few tap lessons as an 11 year old (THEN I felt self-concious - all the other beginners were 5!), I have had no formal lessons or training. And once of my favourite films ever is Strictly Ballroom. I also watched because of the fantasy involved in the gorgeous Fred and Ginger type wardrobes and the saucy latin outfits - next to dance, I love clothes best. So it all tied in together.

Everything in the first few series was much simpler. But I think it has evolved over time and you can't turn the clock back. Audiences have grown and grown so I don;t think they will ever go back to the simpler, more uncluttered days.

My only disappointment is the uglification of it all. Even Movie week didn't concentrate on the glamour of Hollywood but picked out some dowdy horrors. And let's not talk about halloween (ever!). And with the exception of A.nton's nod to Strictly Ballroom it's lost the knowing kitsch campness of Strictly Ballroom, which is a shame. In some ways it is too slick and glossy now, and in otherways it's totally lost the shiny, glittery, slightly amateur-feel it had in the early days (which was a nod to Come Dancing, which I never really enjoyed, funnily enough! Too... wooden and starchy for me growing up. I preferred Fred and Ginger, Gene Kelly, Vera Ellen, Cyd Charisse etc; even John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever [dreadful, dreadful film though it is] and Grease).

Ah well... onwards and upwards. Moving forwards is the only way - sometimes in moving forward we find we have come full circle...

The first series passed me by as well.  I remember the series Zoe was in (thought her tango was a-ma-zing) and have watched every series since then.  If I have to pick one moment when I felt the glamour had gone, it was when Mark Wright did a ballroom dance wearing jeans and a sweater.  I was flabbergasted, affronted and downright peeved. The costumes haven’t been the same since that moment and, for me, a little bit of the magic went at the same time.

I also used to love Claudia on ITT but can’t bear her slapstick routines on the main show now.

I don’t mind the pros coming and going, they tend to grow on me (or not).  I love Aljaz but have grown tired of Karen and even, dare I say it, Kevin from Grimsby.

I guess hubby’s right, I’ll keep watching and voting and being outraged at the shock results; sadly not a lot else to do on a Saturday night..........