It Takes Two 2018

TANGOLERO wrote:
Do you never wonder, Jingle, if some of the training bloops shown on I.T.T are deliberate to cause comment and talking points? I'm not saying it's so, but they all seem to improve pretty rapidly from Friday to Saturday. I'm asking here, based on previous observation  as I gave up on I.T.T some time ago. I think the challenges etc are a bit childish and purely for T.V benefit and I can't pretend ladies, oops,er "persons'" frocks are quite my thing and gush definitely ain't, plus I get all the music info here. It's just that the actual dance content is a bit overwhelmed by the caca de toros....Sorry..

To be honest Tango, yes sometimes I do find ITT a little childish and also formulaic. The main attraction for me is to hear the couple's interviews, but at times I get a bit frustrated that Zoe's line of questions tend to be repetitive and retrospective. I'm not sure she 'exposes' the couples to the extent that Claudia used to.  This is the first year I've also started watching Strictly youtube channels (eg. Joe, Janette, AJ)  and I'm finding those a lot more insightful than ITT about the behind-the-scenes goings on.

Having said all that, I couldn't do without my daily fix of ITT during weekdays. It's something to look forward to on cold dark evenings, and I get hooked every year.  As Sax has pointed out before, the worst thing is the sudden ending of ITT without a wrap-party episode to talk to the winners and runners up. I wish the BBC would have a think about that.

jingle wrote:

Having said all that, I couldn't do without my daily fix of ITT during weekdays. It's something to look forward to on cold dark evenings, and I get hooked every year.  As Sax has pointed out before, the worst thing is the sudden ending of ITT without a wrap-party episode to talk to the winners and runners up. I wish the BBC would have a think about that.

I'll second all that Jingle - although I have more or less given up watching the Friday show. The ones that I can't miss are Choreography Corner and Waites Warm-Up.

Loved Graeme's good bye interview tonight - I loved it when he said that he realized that to be kept in after the DO, Ashley would have to fall flat on her face! A really nice man and a great pairing.

I know I have made it clear I am not a fan of Diane, but looking at her training footage she gives good salsa - which even amongst the pros isn't a given. They don't usually get the really bent down into the floor styling. I've only seen Gorka do a decent one previously.

Sadly Joe... not so much.

Love that Charles has had all the 'difficult dances - Samba, Salsa, Rumba...' Cos no-one else has done those, have they...? (Also, a basic salsa is achievable by anyone who can dance decently around a handbag - it is much less technical than the other dances, which is why they throw so much armography and lifts at it, to make it seem more technical than it actually is. And it is probably also the reason it is not included as one of the core dances on the competition circuit.)

Enjoyed the Vicksters look back at dresses past. I agreed with all her choices - I think maybe they've cut the budget since about 2014 as the dresses just don't seem to be as sumptuous. That one of Kara's has long been a favourite of mine.

A pro pos nothing, what did anybody else think of Karen’s dress on ITT last night?

Personally, I thought it was awful

fiftynotout wrote:A pro pos nothing, what did anybody else think of Karen’s dress on ITT last night?

Personally, I thought it was awful

Well, obviously it was vile.

But that's her thing. Wear awful outfits.

She didn't let us down.

It must be something in the name...I thought Karen Hardy's  looked horrible too tonight

Yes I thought that KH looked as though she had just left the office...…...nothing wrong in that of course, but it didn't seem to be the sort of outfit that is usually worn on ITT and wasn't too flattering - but I enjoyed her comments about Joe's salsa - which she obviously didn't particularly rate. I know she always gets mixed reviews on here but I found it a breath of fresh air to have her back and enjoyed her comments - she knows how to do it after so long at it. I do like the 'guest' reviewers but some (E rin, Jo Clifton and Queen Nathalie) are much better than others - (Robin, bless him, didn't do it for me) and even though I love seeing Neil I don't think it is right that members of the current cast get to comment on their peers. I hope we will see more of KH - it was never really explained why she left, but she said tonight she had been doing a lot of travelling (and judging I suppose) I do love the fact that so many 'old' faces are popping up on SCD this year - like the choreography by Arlene last week. I live in hope that in years to come they'll make peace with B rendan and that we seem him popping up somewhere - I'd even like to see 'L ens L ens' return - they could have L en sitting at home on the sofa giving one-liners about the couples instead of that stupid segment that they do with the judges on the results show!!!

Although I'm not that enamoured with her as a pro - I'm glad that Nadia is giving the boys at the top a run for their money in the pro-challenge. I thought her steps were the cleanest that I've seen in the challenge so far.

All Hail Queen Oti. And her amazing bra...

Only Oti could give a speech which gives thanks to her underwear. I am so pleased she won - she really thought she was there as the comedy card, the one who did lots of steps but had loads disqualified.

And how amazing are Amy and Luba? The three of them on that sofa tonight was like watching Strictly royalty. All of them have poise and charisma. I would love Luba to replace Karen- not because I fid Ms Hauer annoying so much as I don't see any evidence of her being a good teacher.

I really can't decide who I want to be most when I grow up.. Oti, Amy or Luba...

I really, really enjoyed that section of ITT.

Olly Murs.... Not so much. Ok, not at all.

Radzi was briliant - either give him a permanent slot on the show (maybe Gethins...) or get him to compete in Strictly next year. As an aside, I met Radzi when he hadn't long had the Blue Peter gig and he could hardly believe his luck. He was very modest and real and lovely.

Pleased for Oti. Smashed the boys out of the park. Luba and Johannes seem a great addition to the show. Thought it was interesting that Louis Rainbow was saying she was about to leave after running the show for 6 years. More changes in the pipe line?

I thought it was interesting when Louise Rainbow said one of her proudest achievements was the concept for Ed Ball's Gangnum style, and she mentioned the brainstorming sessions to come up with ideas for the dances. It made me wonder just how much of the theming and music etc is pre-decided by the producers, and how much is at the discretion of the pros.

Agree about Luba and Johannes (personally I'd make space by dropping Kevin and Karen next year, but I can't see that happening...)

diamondsandpearls wrote:All Hail Queen Oti.  And her amazing bra...

Only Oti could give a speech which gives thanks to her underwear.  I am so pleased she won - she really thought she was there as the comedy card, the one who did lots of steps but had loads disqualified.

And how amazing are Amy and Luba?  The three of them on that sofa tonight was like watching Strictly royalty. All of them have poise and charisma. I would love Luba to replace Karen- not because I fid Ms Hauer annoying so much as I don't see any evidence of her being a good teacher.
.

I'm delighted she won too. She was quite funny when she circled her boobs and talked about gravity helping her, but when she thanked her bra, my wife and I practically fell off the sofa with laughter! She and Katya are my absolute favourites among the professionals although Dianne, Amy and Luba are coming up fast on the outside!

I've long suspected that the BBC production team had more to do with the themes and music the of dances than the Pros did. It's the way TV works, isn't it. She was right though. Gangnam Style was one of the very best ideas that they've come up with and Katya and Ed Balls were the ones to make the most of it. It'll be remembered forever.

[quote="Twirlie"]
I'm delighted she won too. She was quite funny when she circled her boobs and talked about gravity helping her, but when she thanked her bra, my wife and I practically fell off the sofa with laughter! She and Katya are my absolute favourites among the professionals although Dianne, Amy and Luba are coming up fast on the outside!

I've long suspected that the BBC production team had more to do with the themes and music the of dances than the Pros did. It's the way TV works, isn't it. She was right though. Gangnam Style was one of the very best ideas that they've come up with and Katya and Ed Balls were the ones to make the most of it. It'll be remembered forever.[/quote]

I have to take issue with that Jingle! In my world Gangnum Style was one of the worst pieces of dance in the history of dance. Even now I cannot stand watching it again. It was big, it wasn't clever and it certainly wasn't funny. The only thing it had going for it was it was the first time (of many) that Katya's amazing core strength was show-cased. Other than that... it was a load of old Ed Balls. (I REALLY REALLY hated it - on a par with Widdishins being hurled around the dance floor in the paso).

Still don't like Dianne, though she has definitely dropped a place or two from the top of my Agin pro list. But Luba and Amy are right there at the top of my Afors along with Oti.

diamondsandpearls wrote:it was a load of old Ed Balls. I REALLY REALLY hated it

So.

You didn't like it then?

jingle wrote:I thought it was interesting when Louise Rainbow said one of her proudest achievements was the concept for Ed Ball's Gangnum style, and she mentioned the brainstorming sessions to come up with ideas for the dances. It made me wonder just how much of the theming and music etc is pre-decided by the producers, and how much is at the discretion of the pros.

Agree about Luba and Johannes (personally I'd make space by dropping Kevin and Karen next year, but I can't see that happening...)

I think the theme nights seem pretty much non-negotiable - but my theory is that some pros have more clout than others when it comes to pushing their own themes and choreography - and I think partly this is because some of them are just naturally better and more experienced at doing it than others. A great dancer isn't necessary great at designing themes and ideas.  I would love to be a fly on the wall in the production meetings when I bet there are loads of arguments and too-ing and fro-ing with the more forthright pros and I think there is probably many a compromise on both sides!!!!   I also think that to come up with all your own ideas and choreography for 12 weeks is a tall order even for a seasoned choreographer and I'm sure they all need a helping hand at some point and probably all have dances that are not their specialities and that they are not fussed about.  I would imagine that a lot of the newbies have all their stuff planned for them and I'm sure some pros are more reliant on the team than others.

Really happy that Oti won the challenge - and there's one who I think is more than capable of the choreography but equally takes it on the chin and tries to make it work, whatever she is given.

Personally - I think it is time for Mrs Clifton to go.  Nothing against her as a dancer but she just makes no impact and I have never thought she is a very good teacher.

It is interesting that Louise Rainbow is leaving - don't forget she is the one who has brought in a lot of the changes that have come from DWTS and that we haven't liked .

mauveangel09 wrote:

I think the theme nights seem pretty much non-negotiable - but my theory is that some pros have more clout than others when it comes to pushing their own themes and choreography - and I think partly this is because some of them are just naturally better and more experienced at doing it than others. A great dancer isn't necessary great at designing themes and ideas.  I would love to be a fly on the wall in the production meetings when I bet there are loads of arguments and too-ing and fro-ing with the more forthright pros and I think there is probably many a compromise on both sides!!!!   I also think that to come up with all your own ideas and choreography for 12 weeks is a tall order even for a seasoned choreographer and I'm sure they all need a helping hand at some point and probably all have dances that are not their specialities and that they are not fussed about.  I would imagine that a lot of the newbies have all their stuff planned for them and I'm sure some pros are more reliant on the team than others.

Really happy that Oti won the challenge - and there's one who I think is more than capable of the choreography but equally takes it on the chin and tries to make it work, whatever she is given.

Personally - I think it is time for Mrs Clifton to go.  Nothing against her as a dancer but she just makes no impact and I have never thought she is a very good teacher.

It is interesting that Louise Rainbow is leaving - don't forget she is the one who has brought in a lot of the changes that have come from DWTS and that we haven't liked .

Some interesting stuff to chew on there, Mauve and I think you have probably hit the nail on the head regarding the themes and choreography. We already know that Kevin has strong ideas (which I personally don't tend to take to) and I think Katya is probably another one (even though she had the dance I cannot name foisted upon her) but I suspect that you are right - a great dancer doesn't necessarily make a good choreographer (Fred Astaire did surprisingly little of his own choreography for example) and, as you say, it would be daunting for the newbies. I wonder if the pros all used to do their own in the first few series though... I'm thinking Erin, Vincente, Flavia, Matthew, Ian etc.

I am SO agreed that is long overdue for Karen to go for exactly the same reasons you give. I have never been a fan and felt she has stayed at least three series too long.

Regarding Louise Somewhere Over, I thought as she said that she had been there 6 years that it coincided with beginning of the demise of the ballgown, as in full on frou frou and sequins. It is notable that whenever they showcase a more traditional dress there is universal love for it from young an old. Strictly is all about fantasy and the magical, fairytale dresses are part of that. They have been systematically watered down and thus has the corresponding impact they make on the dance for the viewer. I would say this of the music too - the dances that really work are the dances where the styling and the music come together with the choreography. Thus, amazing though Ashley is, the paso wasn't very pleasing or easy to watch because the music didn't say paso and the choreography had to be fiddled with to reflect the nuances of the tune whilst stillincluding traditiona paso choreography. It ends up a mish mash and a bit messy or frantic.

I think the next producer would be as well to bear in mind that audeinces are different in each country and most country's have reflected this in their take on the original (UK!) format. I have no problem with new ideas - the Fusion Dance week for example was fantastic (and never repeated sadly) - but they need to be ideas that don't just copy our US cousins for the sake of it. We like our our Charlestons to be Flapper-esque, our Pasos to be Spanish in look and feel, our ATs to have a real Argentinian gaucho feel, our sambas to be reflect Rio carnival time, our salsas to look as though they are being danced on the streets of Havanna... and so on. And that means the music has to be either authentic or absolutely have the right beat and feel to it - so no salsas to disco He is. And we obey him., or pasos and tangos to angsty emo stuff. There is a never ending catalogue of tunes out there (just look on Spotify) - it really isn't hard to find current, relevant music. It is not like they update the music anyway - last week we had nearly every tune which had been used for either Chelsea or Jay and which had had at least one additional outing as well. It's a great show, but it is the fundementals which need the care and the detail, rather than the showy stuff like floor lights, props and general staging. If you get the styling (rather than theming), the music and the choreography right and put all your efforts into getting it so, then the staging is the icing on the lingerie, rather than the main event.

So be bold new producer, draw your eyes away from what they are doing across the pond, and make Strictly all our own with amazing, authentic, fairytale routines that dazzle us without any need for extra distractions.

S/he is SO not going to listen are they?! (also, nobody knows we exist anymore...!)

Mauve and Diamonds..I'm SO with you! Let's hope that with the departure of Louise Rainbow someone will come and shake things up as she did- but for the better. You're so right D&P - it is our home grown format and we don't need or want it to be like DWTS. When you get old and grumpy you realise that everything comes full circle eventually - it just depends on when you got on the merry go round as to whether you think it's new or retro! Let's hope the time has come for a return to the more traditional format. I'll let you fight for the fairytale dresses Diamonds, I'll take on saving the Charleston and AT until the later stages - and maybe having a group n.umber such as a waltz or foxtrot in week 3 or sow thing so we can compare them together doing the same basic thing- a proper dance not  not some silly -athon. 
We can but dream.....
Surely as its our TV license that pays for the Beeb we should be on the interviewing panel for the next producer?! 

allsewnonbyhand wrote:Mauve and Diamonds..I'm SO with you! Let's hope that with the departure of Louise Rainbow someone will come and shake things up as she did- but for the better. You're so right D&P - it is our home grown format and we don't need or want it to be like DWTS. When you get old and grumpy you realise that everything comes full circle eventually - it just depends on when you got on the merry go round as to whether you think it's new or retro! Let's hope the time has come for a return to the more traditional format. I'll let you fight for the fairytale dresses Diamonds, I'll take on saving the Charleston and AT until the later stages - and maybe having a group n.umber such as a waltz or foxtrot in week 3 or sow thing so we can compare them together doing the same basic thing- a proper dance not  not some silly -athon. 
We can but dream.....
Surely as its our TV license that pays for the Beeb we should be on the interviewing panel for the next producer?! ;)

We SO should! I think it's already been decided though. Not that I remember her name, but I think I;ve seen it somewhere that another woman has got the job. I can;t BELIEVE they forgot to call us to be on the panel...

I like your idea of keeping some of the dances until later. Certainly the AT. The Charleston I'm not so fussed about as it is a character dance with less technicality so the it can be pulled of to a reasonable level in the early stages. Probably a lot better than a samba or a Paso... LOve the idea of comparing like with like. Hey - radical idea.. lets have half the couples do a Waltz and half the couples do a Chax3 in the first few weeks and then we can compare them to each other... Oh yeah, that's what they used todo...I think I would find having them all on the floor at the same time just as confusing as the -athons - some couples never get much camera time (Lauren and Aj, for example, could only be seen at the end when the music slowed almost to a stop and they did this weird slo-mo thing, which fitted in with the music at that precise moment but gave the impression this was all they had been doing. I watched it back a few times and concentrated on looking at them in the background and blanking out the couples in the forefront. They were actually pretty good and should have been in the middle of the placements, rather than second last. I don't believe the judges can see much better)

Perhaps we can be on the development team, as we missed the interviews?

Very interesting D+P and Allse - it is true that everything goes round in circles.

I thought that Lauren and AJ were lovely on the show tonight. B runo and Shirley made a real pair! I thought that Shirley had possibly been on the sherbets as all she did was sit there and laugh! But what a laugh she has!!

Weird chemistry again tonight between Faye and Gio. My theory is that he can't quite get his head round a partner who is almost his equal on a professional level and is not interested in him on a personal level nor as a sort of 'Svengali' figure, therefore he has kind of adopted this strict boss persona - all very strange, but at least they can turn it on for the dance floor!

I liked the three male winners (Joe, Harry and Chris) on tonight's show. I think Harry might be my favourite male celeb ever to win ( but I'd have to check just to sure). One thing is for sure, chris was right when he said everything rests on the showdance- and he should know! I firmly believe that the trophy will be won or lost on it on Saturday. It's  down to the inventiveness  and concept of the pro's choreography.

Oh yes, Alls, Harry still does it for me! He was easily the best when they were doing all the Land of the Thousand Dances dances. Kara favourite female and Harry favourite male winner (but just slightly behind Kara).

From the tunes chosen I think Faye's shows the most potential for being very pleasing. The Land of the Thousand dances screeches all out too much and messy and Stacey just going all out frenzy. Ashley's... meh. Joe's - love the song, but not for a ballroom/latin showdance.

Just catching up with ITT and I'm now all of a dither...

I saw Joe and thought - what a lovely chappy.  I don't mind if he wins.  And Dianne, you're being a bit less annoying.  I don't mind if you win.  SO that's ok, I thought.  I can happily just give all my votes to Joe.  Phew.  job done.

Then I saw Ashley.  And I cried.  Proper cried.  Because she has clearly been holding onto a lot of sadness and grief but she is always sunny and warm and just gets in with it, even when she was in the dance off umpteen times with a perfect score. As one of her freinds says, she is really resilient.  And I fell a bit in love with her.  And Pasha, so strong and supportive and just THERE without any hooha and razzmatazz or fuss. Oh no, I might have to split my votes now...

Then Faye came on and I was reminded of some of the earlier dances - the VW and the Quickstep - which were so amazing, so early on in the proceedings.  And it seemed that she started out fairly relaxed and just chuffed to be there but was being pushed so much by Gio that she got a bit anxious and tense.  But them Gio complimented her that the reason she was pushed so hard was because she had the ability and that he was very grateful for that because it gave him a chance to grow and challenge himself with inventive choreography.  So then I thought I would have to give her at least one vote too because she is SO good and a nice woman to boot.

But then Stacey came on and ....  Oh no.  She and Kevin STILL annoy the bejesus out of me. (And  can't forgive them - Kevin mainly, but ably supported by Stacey - for that bizarre interview where he basically stamped his foot that they didn't get a ten from C raig.  No grace or dignity; no modesty or humility).  Kevin had some great crocodile tears, Stacey kept it together - the only one who seemed genuinely moved was Zoe...  Well, that's one couple that I don't need to throw into the mix.

But really, of the other three?  I genuinely don't mind. (Though I LOVED Alison Hammond sticking her neck and NOT going for the popular choice of Joe/Stacey and saying she wanted Ashley to win )

ANd now I've made peace with that, Stacey is SO going to win isn't she? (And Kevin will be UNBEARABLE next year when they do).

So it's a wrap for ITT for this year...………………..

I've not really been watching the Friday shows this year but of course I watched tonight. I loved the show and particularly enjoyed the Chorus Line opening with the pros doing the high kicks in the background! I enjoyed the interviews with all the finalists and watching their dances back which kind of gave me the opportunity to think about a summary on each person.

Ashley is the one (not surprisingly) who has been the most consistent from the start. I think to be fair, Faye excelled on some weeks more than others, but always gave solid performances that grew into moments of magic and I think that Giovanni was extraordinarily (for him) eloquent when he said that Faye has allowed him to be his most creative of all the series that he has been in. I think this was because he didn't have to deal with any emotions with her - she just got on with it and the girl is a real performer - producing some memorable moments. However, I agree with the person who said on here that I don't think they will be friends for life - it was a strange chemistry between them right the way through and I think had she not been such a great dancer they well could have fallen out based on personalities alone.

Joe for me did his best work in the first half of the competition and made great progress but then reached a ceiling some weeks ago and is there on votes alone. Stacey on the other hand seemed to grow as the competition progressed.

So long ITT for another year...…………….I've loved it again as always

ps Totally agree with Sax and everyone else who has said over a n umber of years that we should have a post ITT - the SCD finalists and the winner always seem to just shuffle off into the sunset after the final...…...however, I think tonight with the interviews being the main focus of the show kind of mitigated that a bit. If you don't usually watch ITT - reach for the iplayer!

diamondsandpearls wrote:.

I saw Joe and thought - what a lovely chappy.  I don't mind if he wins.  And Dianne, you're being a bit less annoying.  I don't mind if you win.  SO that's ok, I thought.  I can happily just give all my votes to Joe.  Phew.  job done.

Yes I know what you mean Diamonds.   I make no secret of the fact that I've been agin Joe all along - but a lot of it has been to do with the artificially high marks given by the judges.  He's basically a nice boy who has progressed on his dancing 'J' - but on ability is not really finals material for me and without his millions of followers would not in my opinion have progressed this far and as he has millions of followers he doesn't need my vote - however,   I have assured Mr Mauve that should he win - I will not start shouting and ruining the evening but will accept it with good grace...…………………….

mauveangel09 wrote:  I have assured Mr Mauve that should he ( Joe) win - I will not start shouting and ruining the evening but will accept it with good grace...…………………….

I, on the other hand may well not be pleased and show it.... ....

Ok - if that should come to pass then we'll have a rant on here tomorrow Mr T - on the 'Honesty' thread of course...………..