Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

A point I'd like to mention and I might as well do it here as I feel it relevant:

Judges (and show presenters in part) . Silliness and insensitivity apart, which they should know without mention, are they not meant to be -even chosen to be- impartial and fair without bias or favouritism? Can the public (mainly the gullible ones and the young) not fail to be influenced seeing Darcy's blatant dismay at a favourite being in a dance off, or Shirley ( or others) standing up to applaud a contestant's performance .I won't even go there at C.R.H's grovelling display over one entrant. Is it really fair (well, no it can't be because the public are involved) that the judges can overule a majority in what has become an entertainment show far removed from Come Dancing days ? And in the end, is it any sort of a fair test anyway with the G.B.P ( that includes thee and me by the way) involved? We know it isn't, yet seeing appointed (and very well paid) judges doing nothing but advancing their own choices forth is galling. This isn't the Olympics or any international sporting event, but a dance contest (worth multi-millions in viewer rating, phonecalls and ticket sales incidentally) of the quality of a 1950's Rock and Roll contest at the Palais,with a £20 plastic trophy at the end of it. ( We got Mecca ties and five Will's Whiff cigars, and the women cheap perfume as prizes) We all know the score, but the pantomime season usaually starts when Strictly ends. At least let the judges be the ones to keep in reasonably fair.

p.s..Bring back The Love God that is Leonard The Lion Goodman. This Shirley lady is just a recorded techno dance lesson on legs...

Oh I agree Tango. I don't want to see the judges clapping, doing standing ovations, and especially not bowing down to contestants or 'handing over' their latin crowns. It reeks of bias and favouritism.

However I'm happy to keep Shirley, mainly because she called it right when it came to the Mollie/Aston dance off (I think it's the only time she hasn't agreed with the others)

TANGOLERO wrote: or Shirley ( or others) standing up to applaud a contestant's performance .I won't even go there at C.R.H's grovelling display over one entrant.

p.s..Bring back The Love God that is Leonard The Lion Goodman. This Shirley lady is just a recorded techno dance lesson on legs...

I hate the standing ovulations from the judges an' all Mr T but it was L.en who started it when he gave Matt DA one!

Sid wrote:

I hate the standing ovulations from the judges an' all Mr T but it was L.en who started it when he gave Matt DA one!

And bad as the standing ovations are C raig prostrating himself at Debbies feet was a real low moment for me .

I meant to say diamonds - your post made total sense x

Tappingfeet wrote:

And bad as the standing ovations are  C raig prostrating himself at Debbies feet was a real low moment for me .

I actually vomited a little in my mouth. It was such a random dance to do it on as well. Not that there's ever an appropriate time, but Debbie's AT was way more worthy.

Grief hits when you least expect it too. One of my friends lost her husband in February this year aged 33 from Bowel Cancer  . It just feels as if coming up a little for air and its' true a song/picture a memory date triggers raw feelings. For Tess to harp on again doesn't help nor C,raig. So please just no more references.
We never found out about Will Young and why he left. Maybe in a few years? I had high hopes for Will .

We have had weird exits in the semi finals so we could still have a surprise in store. Molly has to go all out for a place. Gemma and Alijaz need a great performance . Joe I'm hoping for a spectacular dance. Gorka and Debbie hopefully create a chemistry. Alex I'd like to see less forced emotion but some inner emotion too and a little neater feet...
I noticed the debaucle re Karen and Accountant? Maybe tax records being worked on etc. Until either of the couple announce it's true then it's just heresay and made up fodder.
 .

TANGOLERO wrote:Red tops full of Mrs Clifton this morning, for all the wrong reasons.

It's on the internet newspapers too. I actually felt sorry for Kevin for once. He's seemed quite vulnerable this season and not his usual upbeat self. Then again - if it's red tops....... I hope they can sort themselves out. It was awful watching Vincent & Flavia having problems. It must be awkward when you're professional partners as well as a couple.

TANGOLERO wrote:a dance contest (worth multi-millions in viewer rating, phonecalls and ticket sales incidentally) of the quality of a 1950's Rock and Roll contest at the Palais,with a £20 plastic trophy at the end of it. ( We got Mecca ties and five Will's Whiff cigars, and the women cheap perfume as prizes)

This put me in mind of a clip I found of a demonstration of the Jive at Hammersmith Palaid (de Danse...) from 1943. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8pXDfX2giU ) It first of all demonstrated the jitterbug (presumably brought over wiht the GIs along with nylons and cigarettes). It then proposed that it was unsuitable for the ballroom floor (for a more prim British ballroom - the yanks seemed to manage!) and then demonstrated the jive, which was a much more contained version of the Jitterbug - more genteel and polite! This is the dance that I remember my older aunts and uncles doing - they were young in the late forties and early fifties. However, and I shall keep banging about this ad infinitum I think, it bears very little resemblence to the Strictly (ie, International Ballroom) Jive, which seems to have completely invented the kicks and flicks where there were none originally - not even in the parent dance, the Jitterbug (or Swing as it is now known I think). Why invent something for competition purposes so that it becomes a different dance to the one that it originated fromand which normal people dance socially? Obviously it has to be slicker and there needs to be standards and rules, but to make a whole new leg movement, ie the kicks and flicks? It is not a jive - in the way that Jive is not Jitterbug. It is a new variant and it needs it's own name to stop confusing me! (I always wondered why the dancing I have seen of an older generation dancing the jive was so different to the one on the telly...)

I know the Rumba didn't come directly from the Cuban Rumba but via Mambo and Cha Cha Cha, but even in 1960 an American couple were on TV showing a Rumba that was much more similar to that Cuban Rumba than the silly, sinuous, writhing, Ballroom Rumba we have now and seemed to have had since the 80s at the very least. (I can't find video evidence for when it changed from being a faster dance to the slow writhings we have today - though I think Mauve said it went back to the 1940s. But I bet they weren't wriggling and rubing all over each other at that point....) My point is, there is an original dance, danced in ballrooms all over the land, and then the International Ballroom people got hold of it and, of course, standardised it and created rules. So far, so good. But they seemed to have also evolved them into dances that in no way resemble the originals. Given that both the Jive and the Rumba are more recent dances you would think they would have been more unchanged than the Waltz or the Foxtrot which are older. But the reverse is true.

The Samba of the Ballroom has retained the bounce and little else - if you see Carnival Samba's in Rio they are nothing like the Samba we see on Strictly. There is a youtube clip of Flavia and Vinthent following a Samba troupe onto the dance floor and dancing a pro Samba. In the comments below there are howls of protests from people from the Latin countires saying that they were not dancing a Samba - but that the Samba Troupe were (Flavia and Vinthent were incrediable as ever, but it WAS a different dance).

So I am WAY confused. This seems to me this was what Strictly Ballroom was railing against - that the International Ballroom dances had departed so much from their parent dances that the original soul had been lost. (it was why I never liked Come Dancing - apart from the frou frou dresses). I was hoping that Strictly Come Dancing - given it's title with the Strictly - would come back and give that soul. But apparently not. Mind you, having seen clips of ballroom competition in the 80s, it has removed itself somewhat from the Tina Sparkle era! (I SWEAR I saw her in one clip circa 1986, and in a 1970s clip of Come Dancing I saw Shirley Hastings...!)

Interesting post indeed D & P. Si interesting that.....

I'll tell a little hypothetical tale now, because it's long ago, but two eons ago a group of shall we say "visionaries" and a dance maestro gathered a group of folk still alive from the great rock and roll era of 1956/60 together, and decided to teach them how to jive in sequence for a T.V show. Now apart from the fact that Jive/R&R are as foreign to sequence dance as the Sand Dance is to classical ballet, said folk found themselves being ultra confused by being told how to do something they'd mastered easily at 15,16 and 17 years old, and now being filmed doing it. It was a bit like having walking explained to said folk orally. After two months of at least two hours per day, (sometimes more, and including Saturdays) at various locations that the geriatric rockers had to find their own ways to to practise learning this sequence jiving, it wasn't going well and patiences and tempers were a little er, frayed.. One lady went on holiday and, on returning was told she wasn't needed anymore, another chap got fed up of it all, exploded in a shower of chocolate biscuit and disappeared into space somewhere over Wigan. A few just couldn't cope and thus some ladies didn't want them as partners, and others asked if we weren't a little old for the S.A.S.. Some of the folk, who if music played would naturally dance with each other without a second thought, were finding themselves becoming as anxious as an overweight bricklayer in a tutu dancing to the love theme from Romeo and Juliet. At least the music, Glenn Miller's "In the mood" was as familiar and comfortable as house slippers...till the maestro decided to change it for something " more modern" and unsuitable no on knew or even liked (Deja vu?) .In addition they gathered some younger folk to do Cha-Cha, and a third section to perform the tango. I speak here of the geriatrics only, because on the great airing to the nation the jivers jived, the Char Charers Cha-cha'd and the tango dancers had disappeared completely, munching their corned beef sandwiches, never to return. Weird.

To cut to the chase, after many adventures including going to Blackpool and dancing at a league football match in front of thousands, the great night arrived. The Geriatrics hadn't seen the maestro for a week, ( I could imagine a duel being fought at dawn using sticks of rock with the Tango teacher) being left to the mercies of a female assistant who was an absolute gem and the soul of patience, and the super-tuned and stunned jivers were then told "Just go out there and do your own thing" The word "surprise" wouldn't come near describing the bombshell.

Yes folk, if this were a real story it might tell of lots of brown stuff that might be airbourne and many angry words exchanged. Fortunately, it's a fairy tale and hypethetical, so I can't be sued for the telling of such fiction . At least, in the story, they got Glenn Miller back for their big night, so all ended almost well and they jived off into the sunset to dream of when it was all real and wait to be local heroes for a week when it was shown on the telly. . You dancing?

allsewnonbyhand wrote:There seems to be some vitriol floating around Alex, she's not my favourite by any stretch but I don't get where all the nastiness is coming from.

On twitter today Alexandra is replying to trolls saying she didn't have a meltdown on Saturday and walk out. She wasn't in the green room with the others as she was being treated by the physio, then went home. I wonder if Debbie saw the physio too for her back? Gemma also had her ribs strapped up a few weeks ago. Gorka doesn't appear to be overly supportive, but maybe it's a language difficulty and Gorka's not confident to stand up for her? Maybe Alexandra doesn't want him fussing over her? It reminds me of when Ramps rebelled and wouldn't talk to Karen Hardy in the training VT. Thankfully they worked things out and we got a great A. Tango at the end.

Good on Alexandra for calling out that piece of garbage Dan Wootton on her Twitter. He's been coming for her since day one. There's a really unpleasant undertone to the way Alex has been talked about and treated by the press. A couple of nice messages of support to her from Chizzy and Oti today. Also loved Zoe side-eyeing the haters on her Twitter.

TANGOLERO wrote:Interesting post indeed D & P. Si interesting that.....

I'll tell a little hypothetical tale now, because it's long ago, but two eons ago a group of shall we say "visionaries" and a dance maestro gathered a group of folk still alive from the great rock and roll era of 1956/60 together, and decided to teach them how to jive in sequence for a T.V show. Now apart from the fact that Jive/R&R are as foreign to sequence dance as the Sand Dance is to classical ballet, said folk found themselves being ultra confused by being told how to do something they'd mastered easily at 15,16 and 17 years old, and now being filmed doing it. It was a bit like having walking explained to said folk orally. After two months of at least two hours per day, (sometimes more, and including Saturdays) at various locations that the geriatric rockers had to find their own ways to to practise learning this sequence jiving, it wasn't going well and patiences and tempers were a little er, frayed.. One lady went on holiday and, on returning was told she wasn't needed anymore, another chap got fed up of it all, exploded in a shower of chocolate biscuit and disappeared into space somewhere over Wigan. A few just couldn't cope and thus some ladies didn't want them as partners, and others asked if we weren't a little old for the S.A.S.. Some of the folk, who if music played would naturally dance with each other without a second thought, were finding themselves becoming as anxious as an overweight bricklayer in a tutu dancing to the love theme from Romeo and Juliet. At least the music, Glenn Miller's "In the mood" was as familiar and comfortable as house slippers...till the maestro decided to change it for something " more modern" and unsuitable no on knew or even liked (Deja vu?) .In addition they gathered some younger folk to do Cha-Cha, and a third section to perform the tango. I speak here of the geriatrics only, because on the great airing to the nation the jivers jived, the Char Charers Cha-cha'd and the tango dancers had disappeared completely, munching their corned beef sandwiches, never to return. Weird.

To cut to the chase, after many adventures including going to Blackpool and dancing at a league football match in front of thousands, the great night arrived. The Geriatrics hadn't seen the maestro for a week, ( I could imagine a duel being fought at dawn using sticks of rock with the Tango teacher) being left to the mercies of a female assistant who was an absolute gem and the soul of patience, and the super-tuned and stunned jivers were then told "Just go out there and do your own thing" The word "surprise" wouldn't come near describing the bombshell.

Yes folk, if this were a real story it might tell of lots of brown stuff that might be airbourne and many angry words exchanged. Fortunately, it's a fairy tale and hypethetical, so I can't be sued for the telling of such fiction . At least, in the story, they got Glenn Miller back for their big night, so all ended almost well and they jived off into the sunset to dream of when it was all real and wait to be local heroes for a week when it was shown on the telly. . You dancing?

I think I may have come across a very similar fairy tale elsewhere on these boards Tango I very much enjoyed this telling of it

It is very interesting indeed... How it is possible to knock the stuffing out of a dance and spoil all enjoyment - which is usually what dance is all about (apart from the moody pieces....).

I really, really empathise about being able to do one's own thing and be pretty profficient and look pretty good, and then it is analysed and pulled apart and suddenly - bam! All co-ordination and sense of following the music is lost and one's feet are all over the place.. I think I may have mentioned going ot Salsa Clubs in London (back in the late 90s)... I used to just waggle my hips around to the beat adn let my feet do their own thing and I always got dances from the Latin lads and afficionados - they could see that I had the rhyhm and the musicality, they could lead, I could follow. So then I thought it was time I learnt properly and went to Salsa classes. Dis-ahhs-ter dahling.... It was excruciating - there were not enough men to go around for starters, but no matter, the women could dance with each other once they had had a half hour discusion over who was going to lead - and then we just did the basic forward and back step ad infinitum (which I never conciously did - as I say, I just let my feet follow themselves in the rythm, unless being led in which case they followed to where they were led.....) and I found I couldn't do it. At least, I'd manage a couple of sets and then go forward again rather than back and get all muddled and discombobulated. I once danced with the male instructor and all went like a dream - I wasn;t required to think about the steps - just the rythm and letting my feet go where they would - ie, in step with the instructor. I think I managed one more class and decided I was better off just having fun and doing my own thing.

Which is why, though I very much want to dance with Aljaz and learn to Foxtrot, I absolutely know I will be beyond awful and feel upset and frustrated the whole time! (Although, hopefully he would just lead in a simple routine and I would just trot like a fox following his steps.... Maybe.... )

Anyway, I don 't like the modern, ballroom jive half so much as the original social dancing jive. It can look very stick insecty...

Gosh, when you analyse it, it's a wonder I enjoy strictly at all!

To be honest, the only Latin dance I really enjoy is the AT, and looking at old 1920s and 30s footage from Argentina, this is one dance that has actually been improved by being included in international competition. I don't mind the Cha Cha Cha, I think the Samba is silly and the Rumba gross. The jive is too flicky and angular... I believe they count the Charelston as Latin (not sure why - it came out of other ballroom dances and parented the QS which is most certainly a ballroom...), and that can be fun, though also hit and miss. The Salsa is fun to dance but the Strictly version is a car crash to watch.

Nope, the ballroom is what it all about for me :-)

Sid wrote:Good on Alexandra for calling out that piece of garbage Dan Wootton on her Twitter. He's been coming for her since day one. There's a really unpleasant undertone to the way Alex has been talked about and treated by the press. A couple of nice messages of support to her from Chizzy and Oti today. Also loved Zoe side-eyeing the haters on her Twitter.

In one way I miss a lot not being in Twitter.

And in another - not so much...

Who IS this Dan Wootton. And what is this about Alexandra and physio? Did she hurt herself - if so, then she is a trooper because I really wouldn't have known it.

Whether you like or dislike Alexandra as a dancer and performer, personal attacks are just.... Actually, for once, words have failed me.

Good stuff D &P. Here's a rather startling statement. You don't "learn" to dance. You have it exactly right in the rhythm being inside us and dancing naturally when you don't have to worry about anyone else. The rest is learning routines (incidentally, D & P, it isn't a sin to dance side by side in salsa, samba or even rumba (outside of Strictly do it our way) when you argue about who does what; the "routine" was a standard part of rock and roll and done by partners or even two lads together). I had a friend whom I persuaded to come to ballroom class with me some years ago. He just couldn't get it at all. He did eventually master a few basics but always seemed to be striding everywhere rather than dancing. He gave up eventually because of his wife pooh-poohing the class (she had ballroom medals, you know) when with a bit of patience she could have taught him herself at least to being able to shuffle around to music. I owe big thanks to a few damsels back in the middle ages who dragged a fourteen year old knave into the lists and taught me the Gavotte, Boulanger and other stuff played on harps and lutes and stuff. Play music I move, that about sums up dance. The rest is pretty much financial....

diamondsandpearls wrote:
In one way I miss a lot not being in Twitter.

And in another - not so much...

Who IS this Dan Wootton.  And what is this about Alexandra and physio?  Did she hurt herself - if so, then she is a trooper because I really wouldn't have known it.

Whether you like or dislike Alexandra as a dancer and performer, personal attacks are just.... Actually, for once, words have failed me.

Oh my gosh hold the front page

He's a showbiz reporter / parasite for The Sun (nuff said), diamonds. Lorraine Kelly has him on her show as well  - god knows why as he has a track record of circulating fake news about people to shit stir and for some reason he's singled out Alex this time. No idea about her injury but she was setting the record straight that she wasn't having some kind of diva meltdown in the green room as Dan was claiming. He also labelled her 'cocky' on Lorraine - it's different putting those opinions on a forum like this but voicing them on TV or on your twitter feed when you have thousands of followers? There's no need for that. Really don't want my beloved Strictly to descend into a toxic hate-fest - there's enough of that in the real world atm and this is my escape from all that.

Never heard of him.... This sounds like a good thing.
Blimey there's a whole other dark world out there isn't there? I don't think I'm going to get further than dipping my big toe into twitter.   I don't really do all the celeb gossip stuff, I only see what might happen to come up on my google homepage. I'm only aware of major things going on behind the scenes a la John sergeant.

B4 wrote:It reminds me of when Ramps rebelled and wouldn't talk to Karen Hardy in the training VT. Thankfully they worked things out and we got a great A. Tango at the end.

I rest my case! How do you know all that -I never knew that ?!
. What is worrying is I guess that a considerable number of peeps do read/ see this stuff and believe it. And I guess are also influenced by it. At least my agins are all my own. As you say Sid, these folks should have more responsibility before writing/ spouting such garbage.
And we wonder why this show can't just be all about dance ...

Is he the rather orange looking guy on Lorraine? Never watch the show but whilst flicking I've seen her chat to a bloke... Haven't seen any of his twitteretti feeds as I don't follow him...Will I TV step in? Will Lorraine step in?

Twitter can be lovely diamonds it can also be awful. If you police your account re follow who you want to etc it can be a lovely escape.
I'm not sure often if answering the trolls is a wise move? Whatever is said it's twisted. Silence can be dignify in often....

allsewnonbyhand wrote:
I rest my case! How do you know all that -I never knew that ?!:

They've shown it many times on ITT allsewnn when Karen's been in choreography corner. Ramps was really shy, felt under pressure. Karen was asking him on a training room VT why he wasn't talking, and he said something like 'when I've got something to say I talk'. Karen said she really thought he was about to throw in the towel. Then came that Salsa and the final Argentine Tango.

saxonsiren wrote:Twitter can be lovely diamonds it can also be awful. If you police your account re follow who you want to etc it can be a lovely escape.

I'm choosy who I follow so only hear the nicer side of the gossip!

diamondsandpearls wrote:



To be honest, the only Latin dance I really enjoy is the AT, and looking at old 1920s and 30s footage from Argentina, this is one dance that has actually been improved by being included in international competition.  I don't mind the Cha Cha Cha, I think the Samba is silly and the Rumba gross. The jive is too flicky and angular...  I believe they count the Charelston as Latin (not sure why - it came out of other ballroom dances and parented the QS which is most certainly a ballroom...), and that can be fun, though also hit and miss.  The Salsa is fun to dance but the Strictly version is a car crash to watch.

Nope, the ballroom is what it all about for me :-)

I think the problem is that all the Pros have been taught the competition dances, that's what they do and so that is what you will get on SCD and I think that the sort of informal club salsas along with social dancing - whether ballroom or latin - is made for doing for pleasure either in a crowd or in a dark sweaty club and should be accessible to all, but would not necessarily work as a performance piece on stage or in a competition. I can't see the Veleta or the St Bernards Waltz packing much of a punch on SCD - similarly the sort of quickstep you see danced in the 'real world' doesn't include all the razzamatazz of the SCD version. I think the Charleston is only classed as a latin dance in SCD land - as it isn't one of the 10 competition dances. In the old days on 'Come Dancing' I vaguely remember there was a section called something like 'Offbeat' - where they put what were known as 'character' dances' - someone help me out who remembers what it was called?? I think they would have put the Charleston in that category.

I think it would be fun to add something like the mambo into SCD in the same way as they bought the Charleston in. I think a lot of the salsas have too many lifts these days which interferes with the flow of the dance, whereas it doesn't have to be that way. I do like the dance and we've seen some brilliant ones over the years - I'll never forget Mark and Karen. Not many sambas have stuck in my mind over the years, Oti and Danny did the ultimate samba for me last year.

mauveangel09 wrote:

I think the problem is that all the Pros have been taught the competition dances, that's what they do and so that is what you will get on SCD and I think that the sort of informal club salsas along with social dancing - whether ballroom or latin - is made for doing for pleasure either in a crowd or in a dark sweaty  club and should be accessible to all, but would not necessarily work as a performance piece on stage or in a competition. I can't see the Veleta or the St Bernards Waltz packing much of a punch on SCD - similarly the sort of quickstep you see danced in the 'real world' doesn't include all the razzamatazz of the SCD version.   I think the Charleston is only classed as a latin dance in SCD land - as it isn't one of the 10 competition dances. In the old days on 'Come Dancing' I vaguely remember there was a section called something like 'Offbeat' - where they put what were known as 'character' dances' - someone help me out who remembers what it was called??  I think they would have put the Charleston in that category.

I think it would be fun to add something like the mambo into SCD in the same way as they bought the Charleston in. I think a lot of the salsas have too many lifts these days which interferes with the flow of the dance, whereas it doesn't have to be that way.  I do like the dance and we've seen some brilliant ones over the years -  I'll never forget Mark and Karen. Not many sambas have stuck in my mind over the years,  Oti and Danny did the ultimate samba for me last year.

I do see what you are saying Tango, and I agree you need a bit more pazazz and performance on Strictly than you would get in your local Palais or sweaty club. However, as always, I think there is a happy medium. I go back to citing Strictly Ballroom, which demonstrates exactly the problem I have wih the competition style of dance - it loses the soul and spirit of dance. In the film they focussed on the Paso and the reclaiming from all the ridiculous posturings and steps which were included in the competiton the real feeling for the music and putting your heart and soul into that. It can still be entertaining and amazing, but it doesn't to be so hard and brittle as so many of the interpretations are now. Despite all the 'story' and characterisations.

And I agree about Oti an Danny's Samba. But that evoked a carnival Samba in spirit (even if it wasn't in steps and technique) and looked the wild fun that a Samba should be. It had fantastic music and Oti's choreography totally went with the feel of the music. My friend and I had to replay it on Youtube pretty much every evening and try and recreate in the kitchen (I had a recovering broken ankle at the time - it wasn't the best idea...) They particular Samba showed how it could be. Rather than the silliness that we usually get

I love dancing to Latin music so very much, and when I see it neutered and bent out of shape into a staccato, spiky, brittle thing I just feel rather depressed. Oti demonstrated very well that you can still have a competition latin dance that has fun and letting-it all hang out feel. Just more of that please...

Well I must say I enjoyed Gemma's dances more than Mollie's tonight. More thoughts later

Some general overall observations:

Debbie a better dancer by far than Mollie, but Mollie has found her hips and Debbie still hasn't really.  I thought Mollie's 4 was mean, and Debbie by comparison was over-lauded. She didn't have the kicks quite on the money - not enough retraction as C,raig said. It was flicking out rather than pumping up and down.

Alexandra was apologised to big time by Wardrobe as she had two top notch dresses which suited her gloriously. (So glad Vicky too Sid's advice for the feathers...). Gorka in the white tails....  I enjoyed both Alex's dances very much.

Gorka easily the best Salsa choreographer in the show - and he himself dances it stupendously.  A little too much pointless lifting, but in comparison wiht other salsa we see it was quite restrained and apart from one lift, flowed beautifully.  The armography also fitted into the routine rather than a distracting add on.  Most of all though, it felt like the latin dance that I know.

Felt Mollie's Waltz was more convincing than Gema's Tango. Was little disappointed and underwhelmed by Gemma overall.

Joe was about as I expected - not perfect, but jolly pleasing.  The ATchoreography was vincent-esque with a Katya twist which I didn't mind.  The strength of Joe's abs for that last lift are impressive!

Felt we have been given a clear steer for the final four, but personally, if Gemma and Mollie dance against each other I think it will be a close call - esp if Mollie does a mistake-less routine (though I think the judges will bin her) But all things being impartial (which they are not) then it will be a rizla paper.

B4p wrote:Well I must say I enjoyed Gemma's dances more than Mollie's tonight. More thoughts later

Hahahaha! We are complete opposites on this!

A very good semi-final I thought with some annoying moments as well. Here are my thoughts on the dances:-

Joe's American Smooth was very good. It had some great lifts, lovely moves and as always Joe interpreted the music very well. Also loved the armography. 9

Alexandra's Viennese Waltz was very good though I felt she was not following all the way through with her arms. Tad overmarked for me and the gushing judges again were irritating. 9

Mollie's Samba was messy at times and stopped it really flowing. Had good moments but on whole a bit of a dance disaster has far as semi dances go. c.raig's comments were fair enough but not the 4 - I wonder how many times he has got his 4 paddle out for the dancers he clearly wants out? 7

Gemma's Rumba was a fair effort. A fairly uncomplicated routine but had great emotion and feeling to it. Better than I thought it would be. 8

Debbie's Jive had faffing on the stairs at the start. Kicks looked a little flat to me at times and lacked snap. Not her best. Agreed with C.raig's criticism. 8.5

Joe's Argentine Tango. Well I wasn't sure about the start with the mirror. He lost balance at the end of the first lift but had some great kicks, flicks and lifts especially that last one. 8.5

Alexandra's Salsa I thought had a moment of ugly shaping when she leaned back. That aside it was excellent but all meh to me. Somebody please stop those judges acting like cheerleaders and lovesick fans. 9

Mollie's Viennese Waltz was a neat routine with some lovely pivots and turns. It had a good feeling to it. 8

Gemma's Tango was better than I thought it would be. It had good attack and she danced it very well with good kicks. I liked this. 8.5

Debbie's Foxtrot was a very good dance. Well danced but for me the connection that we get from other couples is just not there. B.runo and Darcy actling like six-year-old was embarassing. 9

If I could I'd have all three non-ringers in the final but going purely on their dances tonight then for me Mollie was the weakest dancer. I think her time is up.