Re: 2022 Tango's 'Little bit of Honesty' Discussion Thread

[TANGOLERO]

Good morning all.

Had a quick read through some comments and, as a ever, agree with some, disagree others. The field is beginning to thin out and whilst Ellie and Nikita's Foxtrot was daintily done (she steps very nicely around the floor) I think her race is run, mainly because it's an elimination thing and with James, she's the weakest left on talent. I won't be surprised to see both in the Dance off, but in typical Bubble Bath Club fashion one may be there with a "shock" other. Tony has distanced himself from the pack somewhat with last night's performance and deserved his good score. Well done him.

To resume from last night, Hamza and Jowita, Tango. Three eights and just a 9 from Motsi are a good score, but others are closing in on him. He's still dancing very well, ( Motsi and Shirley's over-reaction is annoying) and an obvious popular contender, but his knee seems a slight problem and that....oh well, pass on. 8.9.8.8...33.

Fluer and Vito, Salsa. My first thoughts were that Vito was allowing Fluer the spotlight. I thought the dance was decent and a bit undermarked but too early high marks are paying the price a bit and somebody has to loose a shoe or a hoof. There will still be ten couples left after tonight, but it will soon pass. Popularity and fan favouritism will play a big part now and it would be so much fairer if they were all doing the same disciplines. . 8.8.8.8...32.

Ellie and Nikita I've already commented on. The marks tend to support my view. 6,8,7,8....29.

Last on the maples, Ellie and Johannes were doing a no-rules Couples Choice and I personally loved it. They just danced and it's very hard to not watch Johannes as he's such a great dancer, but Ellie did very well and the fabu-u-lus darling one's 8 supported that. 8.9.9.9...35.

So.....Still a whole bunch of possible contenders in there and the scoreboard wasn't too far out. If the Blue Peter and Grange Hill mobs can be kept at bay, it all may yet work out well. Tony is in the deep end now, as are Will, Helen and Fluer and how well they swim is up to them. They've all done well, but it's going to get tougher now. Morticia, looking remarkably like a prison warden on Cell Block H, needs to start accepting that some men dance differently than others (and himself) and stop nit-picking about silly things. Shirley has "heel Leads" on the brain and Motsi.....is Motsi....Housewives choice, the ballroom king, I sometimes think, gets a bit lost outside of pure ballroom and can be a bit over kind.

I'm sure none of them will let my comments spoil their Full English, toast and orange juice breakfasts. .

Dance on.

[Twirlie]

WEEK SIX - HALLOWEEN

Just a quick resumé as I was in late last night and am out this afternoon.

Tony and Katya - Quickstep
An improvement but I didn't think it was quite as good as the judges seemed to.

Will and Nancy - Cha Cha Cha
Didn't thrill me. Nancy's doing her best with him but he doesn't do it for me. Overmarked.

Kym and Graziano - Rumba
This looked good in rehearsal. I didn't think the costume allowed her to show it off quite as well. You couldn't see the hip action well enough. I also thought if she does it again in the DO, it'll be much better.

James and Amy - Charleston
What do bees have to do with Halloween? This must be one of the most uninspiring Charleston you've had on the show so far. And what did Amy look like - terrible costumes.

Molly and Carlos - Argentine Tango
Sharp, confident, and very steamy. Not the greatest Argentine tango we have seen on the show but very, very good indeed. I didn't think there was anything ugly about the lifts.

Tyler and Dianne - Cha Cha
He has great hips and the whole thing was generally good. But the fabu-u-lus darling one's right, there was a lack of straight leg. Fun to watch but not quite right. Housewives choice's 10 was ridiculous.

Helen and Gorka - Foxtrot
Good - not inspiring but good.

Hamza and Joweta - Tango
Excellent performance and great choreographically by Joweta.

Fleur and Vito - Salsa
Yes quite good indeed. Excellent lifts. She does show great progress. Vito was unrecognisable!

Ellie S and Nikita - Foxtrot
Meh - it was going to be funny but the props got in the way, the fabu-u-lus darling one was right, too much stop and start.

Ellie T and Johannes - Couple's Choice
Very good, very good, but more please, she has a long way to go in this competition.

Oh, but the judges annoy me more and more. the fabu-u-lus darling one is the only one that's honest. Shirley is occasionally critical - usually in a good way - but Motsi babbles her way through saying nothing, and I'm sad to say that Housewives choice, rather than replacing The Love God that is Leonard The Lion Goodman as we'd all hoped he would, is just following Motsi's lead. Everyone's overmarked and it's all very sad.

[TANGOLERO]

WEEK SIX - HALLOWEEN


Oh, but the judges annoy me more and more. the fabu-u-lus darling one is the only one that's honest. Shirley is occasionally critical - usually in a good way - but Motsi babbles her way through saying nothing, and I'm sad to say that Housewives choice, rather than replacing The Love God that is Leonard The Lion Goodman as we'd all hoped he would, is just following Motsi's lead. Everyone's overmarked and it's all very sad.

Glad it isn't just me Twirlie on Housewives choice. When he was competing with Erin he was my ballroom hero, but as a judge he just isn't cutting the mustard. Thee are few old-time ballroom judges who could replace L en and sadly, A nton isn't one. The public seem to love Motsi as a character, but as a judge she is to dance what Mr Bean is to Sumo wrestling. In short, it's all too much about stiff upper nostrils and not enough L en style "Chuck me in the air"...

[jingle]

Not a vintage Halloween year, but I enjoyed it well enough. Felt James was being set up to fail with that daft bee keeper theme, terrible music and a poor charleston routine.

Having read everyone's reviews I find myself totally in synch with Mars27. My favourite routine was Tyler's cha cha  - I wasn't expecting it to work with the music but I thought it was really interesting choreography. My other favourite was the lovely Hamza, who can do no wrong in my eyes.

As for the others - I'm a bit meh about Will and Nancy. No matter what the routine, I always find Will's approach a bit samey - maybe it's the emphasis he puts on the acting rather than the dancing. I also don't particularly enjoy watching Molly and Carlos - their argentine tango was well danced but I felt it was too fast.

Thought Ellie S's foxtrot was slow and rather dull, feels a bit like she's reached a plateau - whereas I literally said 'wow' during Tony's quickstep. Where did that come from!!  Definitely his best dance so far.

It feels to me like several of the couples are lacking chemistry this year. Kim danced her rumba very well, but I felt her and Graziano weren't connecting at all. Likewise Ellie and Johannes did a very polished routine but I felt Johannes was outdancing her in all the side by side parts, and it didn't feel to me like they were performing as a partnership.

Anyhow, my three hopefuls for the final are Helen, Tyler and Hamza. As for tonights dance off, I'll be surprised if it isn't James going home  - does feel like he got a bad deal when it came to music, costume and choreography.

[B4p]

I missed Giovanni and badly, he’s the undisputed king of Halloween Tango.

He usually also gets top scores for his Halloween Foxtrots too. Remember when he was Uncle Fester with Michelle a few years ago?
https://youtu.be/M113qGWsCMQ

[B4p]

I thought Ellie S was badly done by. Horrible music and so so slow. Hope she survives as she and Nikita have a wonderful partnership, they get on like a house on fire and she’s a sweetheart. I rather watch her than Kym who looks like she’s always looking over people’s shoulder waiting for the next bus to come, so disinterested that she is. Her Rumba was very good though, I’ll give her that.

[mauveangel09]

Glad it isn't just me Twirlie on Housewives choice. When he was competing with Erin he was my ballroom hero, but as a judge he just isn't cutting the mustard. Thee are few old-time ballroom judges who could replace L en and sadly, A nton isn't one. The public seem to love Motsi as a character, but as a judge she is to dance what Mr Bean is to Sumo wrestling. In short, it's all too much about stiff upper nostrils  and not enough L en style "Chuck me in the air"...    

I know exactly what you mean. I thought last year that he was very good and a welcome addition to the judging panel but recently he's been a bit gung ho (like the 10 last night) and not as level headed as before. Someone else in the thread said that he does not seem entirely comfortable unless it is a ballroom n umber and therefore goes on the generous side - except the famous rude comment to Matt Goss on the first show. The jury's out on him for me at the moment.

[mauveangel09]

On the other hand, another unholy mess of flashy choreo and lack of technique that I really didn’t like was Fleur and Vito. He hasn’t been listening to what the judges have been saying about finishing lines and calming her down. Instead he’s adding fuel to her fire. I think he would have benefited from a first year on the bench to learn a bit about the show which is very different from the Italian version that he was on

I missed Giovanni and badly, he’s the undisputed king of Halloween Tango.

I thought Ellie S was badly done by. Horrible music and so so slow. Hope she survives as she and Nikita have a wonderful partnership, they get on like a house on fire and she’s a sweetheart. I rather watch her than Kym who looks like she’s always looking over people’s shoulder waiting for the next bus to come, so disinterested that she is. Her Rumba was very good though, I’ll give her that.

Totally with you on Vito - I think he isn't taking charge here and is going with her style instead of trying to tame it into ballroom and latin. Although he didn't outdance her this week which he has done on a couple of occasions which seems to be a frequent problem with new male celebs - I remember Johannes and Graziano being a bit like that initially. I don't know whether it is just me but I find some of the things that Vito says to be a bit odd. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they give him a year on the bench next year to refine him a little. They did this with Graz if I remember rightly.

I'm missing Giovanni very much - one of the most talented all round choreographers for me.

Interesting what you say about Kym. I really like her and I like her in the other stuff that she does on TV and I don't find her disinterested at all - I think she is similar to Helen in the show but without Helen's angst, although I think Helen is relaxing a bit more now which is good to see.

[B4p]

I enjoyed last night's show. I think it was one of the few weeks where everyone, costumes, make-up, backstage crew, singers, the band, judges and even T ess and Claud all pulled together in the same glorious direction.

I've now watched the show back 3 times, which hasn't happened for a long time! Here are some of my thoughts which I appreciate will be different from others, but that's all part of the fun isn't it? Basically, I've copied the judges and awarded almost everybody an 8. The public vote can sort it all out!

Tony & Katya - Quickstep. I really enjoyed this. I liked the Western concept. Lots of quickstep content. A great routine by Katya. Loved the innovative ending. I think he did really well, and hopefully will have done enough to stay out of trouble. I thought an 8 was about right.

Will & Nancy - Cha-Cha. I liked this too. As Shirley said  ‘dead upstairs and moving downstairs’. It must have been quite hard to try and keep any kind of stiff leg action in amongst those upper body rolls. I enjoyed Nancy’s choreography. A definite 8 from me.

Kym & Graz - Rumba. One of the few rumbas that I not only watched all the way through, but I also thought was stunning. Some of Kym’s lines, particularly when balancing out on one leg were beautiful. I liked the storyline. It was packed with action all the way through. Having Graz in those colours made a fabulous contrast with Kym’s simple black dress. It wasn't the usual sentimental/steamy/lovesick type of Rumba. I liked that she got a couple of 9s.

James & Amy - Charleston. First week doing lifts. He did well. I was a bit distracted by his open mouth throughout. I still get the impression that he’s so busy concentrating on the steps, that he’s still not yet ‘in’ the dance with Amy. Loved Amy’s black bob wig. I agreed with Shirley about needing to project different energies from time to time. Strange music for a Charleston, strange concept, strange routine. He may be in trouble. I thought Cr aigs’ 6 was a bit mean. 7 for me.

Molly & Carlos - A.Tango. I didn’t enjoy this one too much. I like the Kate Bush track but not for this dance; the rhythm and lyrics were completely out of context. I didn’t like the crucifix lift halfway through. Two squashed noses, regardless of their intensity, does not the passion make. I don’t believe in them as a couple and I think he could push her a lot more. I agreed with Cr aig that she wasn’t really following Carlos or reacting to his lead. There didn’t seem to be much of a storyline. I saw some AT steps, but too many unnecessary lifts broke any atmosphere that could have built through the usual close A frame contact. I prefer when they stay fairly grounded and low in the AT with an occasional lift used as a punctuation point, if that makes any sense. I think it might be coming as a bit of a shock to her, that despite her background, she's not automatically top of the class. Not nice to see her almost in tears, but a 7 or 8 from me. I thought she was overmarked with the judges attempting to keep her out of another dance-off.

Tyler & Diane - Cha-Cha. A fun dance. There’s no doubt that Tyler is a fabulous dancer and Diane was having a whale of a time. She really is a terrific dancer. Loved the concept and the routine. I agreed with Motsi that there was a lot of Afro/Caribean fusion loose body action going on. Like Cr aig, I would have liked just a little bit more Cha-Cha included with a few straight legs. Lots of bent knees, rolling hips, and flat feet. An 8 or 9 for me.

Helen & Gorka - Foxtrot. I liked Gorka’s mischievous choreography. She looked relaxed and comfortable throughout. Lots of classic foxtrot steps which she did well. A bit more Halloween/Thriller type menace would have been good. They're both far too nice to be evil. I thought Cr aig was a bit picky about the slight gapping, and his 7 was mean. An 8 for me.

Hamza & Jowita - Tango. I was concerned for Hamza’s knees that he often has strapped up, the music choice, and the fact that his normal smiling face would break through in a serious dance, but I needn’t have worried. Loved the routine. The costumes were stunning, and he did a fabulous job driving Jowita around the floor. Undermarked for me. The same marks as Molly? I don’t think so. A 9 from me.

Fleur & Vito - Salsa. Another naturally talented dancer. I agreed with Motsi that she didn’t really need so many lifts in that routine. I thought the salsa was supposed to be quiet at the top, and 100 miles an hour below, with lots of figure of 8 hip movements? Very powerful and raw, a bit like her week 1 Cha-Cha.  I hope she can harness and control all that energy, to allow for some refinement. It’s interesting that Tyler is never advised to ‘reign it in’ An 8 from me.

Ellie S & Nikita - Foxtrot. Some nice footwork in there. I agreed with the judges about the dance being a too segmented. Nikita has provided some lovely routines for her, but this one was a bit forgettable and not particularly spooky. It was ok, but it didn’t blow me away. She may also be in trouble unless she gets some votes. A 7 from me.

Ellie T & Johannes - Couples Choice. Unfortunately for Ellie, Johannes will always steal the show! He's just such a charismatic dancer.  Great fun dance. I wish she’d have hammed it up just a bit more to match JoJo when they started dancing together. I enjoyed the routine. I hope she can keep that confidence level going as I think she does have some talent there. As we approach the halfway mark she needs to be ready to step up a gear. Between an 8 or 9 from me.

[mauveangel09]

I



Molly & Carlos - A.Tango. I didn’t enjoy this one too much. I like the Kate Bush track but not for this dance; the rhythm and lyrics were completely out of context. I didn’t like the crucifix lift halfway through. Two squashed noses, regardless of their intensity, does not the passion make. I don’t believe in them as a couple and I think he could push her a lot more. I agreed with Cr aig that she wasn’t really following Carlos or reacting to his lead. There didn’t seem to be much of a storyline. I saw some AT steps, but too many unnecessary lifts broke any atmosphere that could have built through the usual close A frame contact. I prefer when they stay fairly grounded and low in the AT with an occasional lift used as a punctuation point, if that makes any sense. I think it might be coming as a bit of a shock to her, that despite her background, she's not automatically top of the class. Not nice to see her almost in tears, but a 7 or 8 from me. I thought she was overmarked with the judges attempting to keep her out of another dance-off.



.

Makes perfect sense

[Mars27]

Totally with you on Vito - I think he isn't taking charge here and is going with her style instead of trying to tame it into ballroom and latin.  Although he didn't outdance her this week which he has done on a couple of occasions which seems to be a frequent problem with new male celebs - I remember Johannes and Graziano being a bit like that initially.   I don't know whether it is just me but I find some of the things that Vito says to be a bit odd.   I wouldn't be at all surprised if they give him a year on the bench next year to refine him a little.   They did this with Graz if I remember rightly.

I'm missing Giovanni very much -  one of the most talented all round choreographers for me.

Interesting what you say about Kym.  I really like her  and I like her in the other stuff that she does on TV  and I don't find her disinterested at all - I think she is similar to Helen in the show but without Helen's angst, although I think Helen is relaxing a bit more now which is good to see.

I think what happened with Kym is that she was sold a fantasy. All the other presenters on Morning Live have been either pros (Janette), successful contestants like Gethin and Kimberly Walsh or ones who famously enjoyed the ride (Dr Ranji). If you add that to the fact that she knew every single pro as they do the fitness section for the show, I suspect she felt like “Ok, I’ll do it, I know everyone, it’s going to be fine”, like it gave her a level of false security. However, there’s a whole level of difficulty that she probably failed to take into consideration such as long hours, natural talent, physical impact on the body, etc. I like her, really do, but to me she’s coming across between disinvested and aloof, like the smiles and words are not exactly reaching the eyes.
Sorry for the long post

[mauveangel09]

Perhaps it is a coping mechanism on her part? Just a thought.

Very interesting points you have made about 'Morning Live' - do you know I had forgotten that Dr Ranj had even been in the show!

[Mars27]

Perhaps it is a  coping mechanism on her part?   Just a thought.

Very interesting points you have made about 'Morning Live' - do you know I had forgotten that Dr Ranj had even been in the show!

It could be, copying mechanism is a possibility

[TANGOLERO]

[quote="Mars27"]

Ref Kim, this is a real possibility, because we can only see and not feel what the contestants feel . I said I didn't like like her rumba, but I don't like any rumba at this level. It's been said many times that such intense emotion and the portrayal of it must be embarrassing to what in reality is a complete stranger as a partner. Maybe Kim didn't feel comfortable with it and was glad when it ended. I'd much sooner have the similar Mambo (Hear Cherry Pink) that is more rythmic and makes for better watching. A simplified version lOF "Johnny's Mambo" from Dirty Dancing would bring the house down...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXj_7ab7e_k

MAMBO.......

[Twirlie]

I thought Ellie S was badly done by. Horrible music and so so slow. Hope she survives as she and Nikita have a wonderful partnership, they get on like a house on fire and she’s a sweetheart. I rather watch her than Kym who looks like she’s always looking over people’s shoulder waiting for the next bus to come, so disinterested that she is. Her Rumba was very good though, I’ll give her that.

I don't quite understand this attitude to Kym that some people have. I don't see her as disinterested at all. I see her as very grounded - a person who is aware of her own capabilities and is mature enough not to be pushed by the BBC into rash statements for publicity on the dance previews or on It Takes Two but who is willing to have a go at anything without the whole hoo-haa of breaking down in tears whenever your kids or dead sister are mentioned.  I'm afraid I do not like this recent trend of pouring everything out on the dance floor and then regurgitating it in tears in the Clauditorium. Give me Kym's stiff upper lip every time.

(PS - Personally I think Ellie S. has reached her sell-by date. She's still in the show for much the same reason as Tony is. Popularity and sympathy.)

[B4p]

I forgot to mention that I also enjoyed the Pro dance on the result show this week. I think it was designed by a female choreographer.
Much as I like most of Mr Gilkison's creations, sometimes they can feel very chaotic, like he's thrown everything, plus the kitchen sink in there.

[Mars27]

Regarding Kym, I liked her Rumba and I’m someone who hates all Rumbas with a passion too. Only two Rumbas in the history of the show made into my memory, Vincent and Rachel and Cherie and James, every other one has been deleted from my brain. I thought her Rumba was well choreographed- props to Graziano - and well danced.

Also, when I say she looks disinterested I mean since the beginning not specifically on Saturday. I actually thought she was great on Saturday as she looks like she’s starting to feel more comfortable. I suppose the disinvested look could be several things including insecurity, but there we are, people see things differently. But I really think she’s coming into her own and it’s nice to see that, like she’s starting to enjoy the experience. I like her and wish she and Graz produce a nice dance on Saturday

[mauveangel09]

I forgot to mention that I also enjoyed the Pro dance on the result show this week. I think it was designed by a female choreographer.
Much as I like most of Mr Gilkison's creations, sometimes they can feel very chaotic, like he's thrown everything, plus the kitchen sink in there.

It was a good routine and I see where you are coming from with Mr Gilkison - with his routines it often seems that there are too many people on the stage at any one time - but tbh I'm getting a bit fed up with all the 'concept' routines per se - too much contemporary and I am lamenting that we don't sometimes get just some straightforward latin or ballroom medleys.

[B4p]

It was a good routine and I see where you are coming from with Mr Gilkison - with his routines it often seems that there are too many people on the stage at any one time - but tbh I'm getting a bit fed up with all the 'concept' routines per se -  too much contemporary and I am lamenting that we don't sometimes get just some straightforward latin or ballroom medleys.

I agree mauve. This week will feel very different without all the fancy dress-bru-hahah.
I think the newbie pros are often stronger on their Latin and Contemporary. That may be another reason why the amount of ballroom pro dances are few and far between particularly this year. I think when Gio, Gorka and Graz first joined the team, they hadn't had much ballroom experience. That's not to say they can't catch up, but with so may new pros, it may affect the mix of ballroom/latin pro dances.

This is a combination group dance from 2009
https://youtu.be/cUoPGyCqPIU

[TANGOLERO]

[quote="B4p"]

To be honest B4P, not to lower the mood, but I'm feeling a bit "end of an era" about ballroom right now. All the experienced ballroom dancers of the A nton, Erin Era seem to be giving ground to rap, street, hip-hop and couples choice invasion and even Fred Astaire is an icon of yesterday. Latin is still very strong but with a distinctly "modern" feel about it. "Dirty Dancing" is now thirty years ago and flamenco is nowhere as near popular in Spain as some make out. I think one of the reasons is topics; Easter Parades are all about rainbow celebrations not "Cycling down the avenue" and "Let's face the music and dance" is jeans and trainers rather than tuxedos and ball gowns. I'm just grateful for having lived in an amazing dance era and what comes next may be in trouble when Grange Hill dominates the boards and "Peanut Vendor" is more "who? than the Dr. Okay, enough of that. On with the music Mr Arch.

[jingle]

I'm feeling a bit "end of an era" about ballroom right now. All the experienced ballroom dancers of the A nton, Erin Era seem to be giving ground to rap, street, hip-hop and couples choice invasion and even Fred Astaire is an icon of yesterday.  

Yes, I'll admit I'm not as captivated by Strictly as I used to be, and I do think it's because of the relative demise of ballroom. I miss elegant routines, danced to classy music, with dancers in traditional ballroom costumes. An A.nton and Erin pro dance was always an absolute treat, or even a Jeanette and Aljaz ballroom routine.  

The new influx of pro dancers seems to put more emphasis on latin, and the group routines put more focus on storytelling and acrobatics. Maybe I'm just a bit old fashioned, but I wish the show would swing back towards the ballroom a bit.

[B4p]

Sorry jingle but this week's pro dance is Commercial Bollywood!

[TANGOLERO]

Sorry jingle but this week's pro dance is Commercial Bollywood!

I can understand the pro dancers being entertainment for the benefit of the masses, B4p. Sometimes they are very good, but oh how I miss a classic tie and tails waltz, foxtrot or quickstep a la A nton and Erin or Ian and Camilla as a pro spot. .

[CaledonianCraig]

I have had a hectic last week what with one thing or another and caught last wee's shows but just did not have the time to comment. I will share my thoughts on tonight's show though. There could be a big name biting the dust. I have the sneaky feeling Ellie Simmonds could be in danger and Tony Adams as he has a Latin dance.

[TANGOLERO]

I have had a hectic last week what with one thing or another and caught last wee's shows but just did not have the time to comment. I will share my thoughts on tonight's show though. There could be a big name biting the dust. I have the sneaky feeling Ellie Simmonds could be in danger and Tony Adams as he has a Latin dance.

I certainly wouldn't bet on anything for cert right now. I do expect a shock result though, it's entertainment....innit.

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