2020 Tango's 'Little bit of Honesty'

diamondsandpearls wrote:
JJ...  Well!  The question is - does a Royal in your video trump three Nans?  

Yes, it's hard to beat that for a VT! Even though his jive wasn't wonderful I gave all my votes last night to JJ as the whole experience clearly means so much to him - I feel he's more invested and keener to learn than some of the others. Hope he can avoid the dance off tonight.

I really enjoyed last nights show, even though several of the performances were rather disappointing. However it's nice to see the front runners are possibly slowing down, and I was delighted to see Clara at the top of the leaderboard.  There's many aspects of the toned down show which I'm really liking - especially the training style VT's  the couples doubling up as the audience, and the interviews with C.laudia (although did anyone else think C.laudia looked and sounded quite ill last night ).  I thought A.nton did ok as a judge, definitely agree with Fifty that there were shades of L.en about him. I half expected him to talk about pickling his walnuts. A few thoughts...
Hrvy - this started very well indeed, but I felt the lifts and spins interrupted the flow and at times Hrvy looked quite static while Janette was doing the acrobatics. I thought he danced at his best in the side by side elements.
Ranvir - thought she looked rather uncomfortable in this, even the length of the dress was a bit demure.
Max - yet again the red hair distracts from the dance. personally I found the choreography for this rather bland.
JJ - not sure whether the military concept, with the arm behind the back, suits the jive. Military posture is very upright whereas jive is about tilting forwards. I thought it looked awkward, but he got all my votes for his commitment
Maisie - YUK! The barbie doll concept and pigtails/outfits made me shudder, I thought this cha cha looked jerky and disjointed. The singer couldn't manage Cyndi Lauper's pitch it was a bit screechy for me
Bill - enjoyed this immensely. When I rewatched it, the moves maybe weren't the most challenging, but the whole thing depended on exact synchronicity which he managed to achieve virtually all of the time.
Caroline - sorry, finding her routines very forgettable, felt this waltz looked a little wooden in parts
Jamie - by contrast, I loved this!! I know he's a reality star and knows very well how to play to the camera, but there's something so exuberant and uninhibited about Jamie. He's so amusing on ITT too, I do really like him. I used to be very agin Karen, but in recent years I think she's done the best for her partners, and these two look like they're having a ball.  
Clara - Wow! what a way to have a breakthrough week, absolutely loved this routine.

Despite several disappointing routines I liked the way the show ended with two upbeat feelgood dances. Overall it felt like a good night, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that JJ gets to stay another week.

Well it was an interesting show last night with a high standard of consistent dances. Here is how I thought it went:-

Harvey and Janette (Jive):- It was an enjoyable dance that looked good but I had one problem with it. Not enough content from Harvey he seemed to spend most of the dance spinning Janette for 10 to 15 seconds and lifting her for the same. He's at a good enough level to want more from him. A 7 from me and was way overmarked. Shirley voting with her loins not her head ...10? No way.

Ranvir and Giovanni (Cha Cha Cha):- A slow start to the dance and I disagreed with An.ton as I thought there wasn't enough fluidity in her hips. She had (as usual) lovely rhythm but she seemed ponderous throughout and slow. Not her best dance but still a nice enough watch. A 6.5 from me.

Max and Dianne (American Smooth):- A nearly sort of dance which was blighted by his posture as he seemed to have bent knees throughout and made it look awkward. Had nice moments too but only a 6 from me.

JJ and Amy (Jive):- A great track to dance to but it was his kicks that let him down badly. They just weren't sharp enough although his timing was spot on. He could be in real danger of elimination this week. A 5.5 from me.

Maisie and Gorka (Cha Cha Cha):- Overly long faffing at the start but once under way she showed some great moves and rhythm. No real errors and polished dance. A 7.5 from me.

Bill and Oti (Couples Choice):- Well not my kind of dance but I still loved it. Bill's rhythm and movement is great for a bloke of his age and size. His enthusiasm is great too as is his timing. An 8.5 from me. Shirley's 10 was stretching it a bit though.

Caroline and Johannes (Waltz):- This was a dance that really suited her pace and didn't call for attack but acting. Maybe an error or two on footwork but an improvement on last week. A 6.5 from me.

Jaimie and Karen (Samba):- This I really enjoyed and was surprised how good it was. He caught the flavour of the dance great in what was, by some way, his best dance of the series so far. A 8.5 from me.

Clara and Alijaz (Charleston):- Another great dance. Loved her characterisation and timing was great too. Very enjoyable and worth an 8 .5 from me. Overmarked a tad by Shirley and An.ton.

Well we now run into problems of who is in the dance-off. Really love this couple but JJ struggled so he and Caroline may end up in the dance-off this week. I don't think An.ton did too bad in his debut as judge. It was always going to be tough given he has close ties with so many of the pro dancers and celebs having been in the competition.

Beloved forumers:

Read all the comments with interest and, as ever agree with some, not others. In a nutshell and brief: (What sort of manic pills is Karen on, or has she broken the world record for Wheetabix?) Anyway...and this is just a personal view....

The pros do quite a lot of distracting tactics out of hold, but I'm watching the contestants with an eagle eye and who's dancing to the music and who to a remembered routine as  priority or doing crowd-pleasing lifts to distraction.  Alijaz is both a superb pro dancer and teacher and Clara is obviously listening to him.

Bill Bailey has a really natural rhythm and is a class example of dancing to music. Oti has done really well with a good pupil
and the popularity factor may see them lift the mirror tiles trophy. I still think the young actress will take it because all her attributes, youth, agility, attractiveness ( a big plus with the selfie brigade) and no small ability to dance, are at a peak.

The rest are really dependent on how they perform as it's musical chairs dance variety. Personally I'd prefer less flash in the show dances, tango, paso etc, and a cleaner maybe, slowed down a little performance with more attention to the attitude of the dance; you don't laugh at a mad bull,( be arrogant) or scowl at a woman you're trying to impress.( to be honest, the neck-breaking staccato jerk has become an over exaggerated feature). Hear the music and react to it above all else.

All said, good luck to them all and it may be the last train to San Fernando for JJ or Caroline. That's enough from me, Take your partners.

Here’s a slightly fuller view of last night’s show.

Loved the two girls’ dresses, especially Tess’s glittery black number.

Hrvy and Janette - Salsa
I think the 10 was too much Shirley. I initially thought it’d be 8s across the board. I don’t suppose I’d mind one 9 as it was a good routine. But 10? Too much. Too much. 8

Ranvir and Giovanni - Cha cha Cha
Certainly not as exciting as last week. A bit tame I thought. Didn’t agree with A’nton. He was overenthusiastic I thought. C’raig was more in agreement with me. (Or was I in agreement with C’raig?) 6

Max and Dianne – American Smooth
Quite smooth an American Smooth. Not inspiring perhaps but he coped with it well. 7

JJ and Amy – Jive
Yes well, how was it? Mmmm….  All the judges said it was a great routine but needed to be a little sharper.  I didn’t think it was so great. The Marines/jive combination just didn’t work. C'raig’s 4? Rubbish.  I did expect him to give it 5 though. 5

Maisie and Gorka – Cha Cha Cha
Had all the energy that Ranvir’s missed. Loads of straight leg and wiggly hips. I enjoyed it well enough. 8

Bill and Oti – Couple’s Choice Street
Oh I loved, absolutely loved this. My jaw was on the floor. Such an exciting dance, Such a lot of content in the choreography. So well thought out by Oti and well executed in tandem by them both. This was one of my favourite dances of the night. Still not worth a 10 though.  9

Caroline and Johannes – Waltz
Was it spot on? Still didn’t love it. She still seems dull on the dance floor.  7

Jamie and Karen – Samba
Another of last night's favourites. I grinned all the way through and was still grinning all the way through the judges' comments. For some reason before the competition started we all thought Jamie was going to be rubbish but he’s actually quite good. She may not have won, but Oti would have done quite well last year with Jamie. I think he has a great partnership with Karen.

jingle wrote: I used to be very agin Karen, but in recent years I think she's done the best for her partners, and these two look like they're having a ball.  

I totally agree with you Jingle. Karen used to be a bit Meh.. for me too, but somehow or other she’s risen to the challenge, whether it’s coping with Dave Meyers and Jeremy Vine or taking Chris Ramsey to the semi final. She’s done great things with Jamie and it’s all to do with their chemistry. No 10s though. 9

Clara and Aljaz – Charleston
I suppose this was the best dance of the night. She brought a rabbit out of the hat thanks to a great dance. Was this choreographed by Aljaz or did they bring someone else in to do it as they used to do? Though it was terrific I’m still not sure it was worth a 10. 9.

While it may have been a little better, I still enjoyed Bill and Jamie’s dances much more than Clara’s excellent one. Will she be able to keep up this standard I wonder or was it just a dance which suited her. On the other hand, we’ve seen Jamie do a ballroom dance in the Amercan Smooth which wasn’t very successful. Does that mean he isn’t good at ballroom or was it just too early in the competition for him to get the hang of it all. The same goes for Bill really. All his dances so far have been fast dances. Cha Cha Cha, Quickstep, Paso and their Couple’s Choice were all up tempo. We have yet to see what he makes of the slower dances like the Waltz or the American Smooth. Has he attempted any lifts yet? I don’t think so. I wondered if there was going to be one at some point in the Couple’s Choice, but no. Is that going to be a difficulty for him as well?

I have to say that Week 4 is still much too early for any 10s. The scores start to become meaningless if 10s are dished out right left and centre. I don’t believe a 10 should come into play before the quarter final at the very soonest.

Who is going to be in the final? Still hard to tell. Will there be three or four finalists this year? I suspect only three with the small number of celebrities in the whole competition. And who is it going to be? When the series started I thought it’d be HRVY and Maisie plus one other. Now I’m not so sure. HRVY and Maisie are still in the mix but they’re no longer a shoe-in with Bill, Clara and Jamie creeping up into the top of the leaderboard as well.

Who will go tonight? I don't think JJ will be in the dance-off yet so it'll either be Max or Ranvir, though I'd rather it was Caroline. I'm bored with her now.

As soon as Maisee's name was called out I think it was a forgone conclusion she'd be saved. Shirley saying she'd save Max & Dianne will cause a melt-down!

B4p wrote:As soon as Maisee's name was called out I think it was a forgone conclusion she'd be saved. Shirley saying she'd save Max & Dianne will cause a melt-down!

Shirley thinking with her wet loins again methinks.

Max can count himself a little unlucky as obviously the weakest dance of the week came from JJ but there again I wouldn't say he's the weakest dancer left in so I was happy he survived. The big surprise was Maisie being in the bottom two and gives us a clue she doesn't have a big fanbase. I just got the impression that it meant less to Max than most of the other competitors left in.

Telly went on the blink just as I switched on. ( no signal it said, weather?) My wife watches in the other room on the Persil/Oxydol channels so saw it. I missed it all. Glad it happened tonight and not last night.Have to catch up on I Player. Having a favourite in a dance off is nothing new so Masie was never in danger. que sera.

fiftynotout wrote:
I think we have got to the stage in the competition where you can see that some people are trying so hard to master the steps and make the routine “perfect” that they forget to put in a “performance”. Just reading your comments I can see that Jamie (who performs) is out-dancing Caroline (who is technically better).  A couple of others lacked performance last night (Ranvir/JJ/Max) but I think this was more to do with the fact that they were uncomfortable with the particular dance they were given.  Frankly, to be a winner you have to good in all genres so these three should, in my opinion, be the next three to go.  Caroline will only survive if she properly lets go (like Clara last night).

HRVY and Maisie are far and away the best dancers but I think the GBP will pick an ultimate winner from the rest of the pack.

A.nton as a judge?  Nowhere near as constructive and technical as I thought he would be and, I have to say, I was a bit disappointed.  I’ve seen his stage show where he is warm and engaging but last night he seemed a little out of his depth, as if he’d been allowed to join the big boys gang but didn’t quite fit in.  There were shades of L.en (in a good way) but otherwise I think he needs to watch and learn, watch and learn or it may be a case of “be careful what you wish for”.

Finally, can I join others in warmly welcoming Tangolero back to this group.  I too was concerned by your absence and wish you all the very best.

I think you've made some excellent points there Twirlie. It's very interesting that Jamie, who is a reality TV star can out-perform a seasoned actor like Caroline.  I think someone else (I will find it and comment separately) did a very good analysis of what is holding Caroline back.

Poor Maisie.  She is getting a lot of hate from the public, and Shirley isn't hiding her dislike very well.  She's 19 and excited and exhuberant like a puppy.  It's not cocky to be confident about performing - she's been performing since she was THREE!  There are some cocky chaps in the mix (RV being the most) but they get nothing but love from viewers and a postive slathering over from Shirley.  I don't think Maisie was at all confident with this dance - training clips showed bits where it looked like she had been in tears.  Just because you are a confident performer does not mean you are a confident person.  I think she has esteem issues like any other 19 year old.  The routine was horrible - shame on you Gorka!  Having got into character as a doll with machanical, robitic movements she never seemed to manage to loosen up. It was such a shame, as I think she has brilliant potential. However, a female ringer will never win - think Alexandra, Ashley, Faye.  Particularly poor Ashley, who was one of the most beautiful dancers Strictly has ever seen but ended up in the dance off over and over.

I liike Max, but didn't love him, and won't miss him.  I think Dianne's choreography needs honing... When they took a look back at their dances, they were all pretty lacking in content and concept. Max was a favourite at the beginnning of the series - Dianne has a record of bowing out around week 4 and I think she lacks to choreography skills to focus on her partnersgood points and downplay their shortcomings, whilst still delivering an exciting and entertaining routine.  She clearly believes her routines are exciting but... in comparison to someone like Oti, Gio or (usually!) Gorka, they're really not.

Big disagree with those who said Clara's Charleston wasn't better than Bill's whatever that was!  It's all personal preference about what brings one joy, so I shan't labour the point too much, but I do think Clara had more technicality to deal with...

Was so glad JJ was saved.  He's in danger of banging on about the uniform and marine thing a bit too much now (Harry in his VT was a clear win), but Amy's joy at being put through, and as someone else said (I'll find you in a bit!), JJ's investment and commitment, and their all round apple pie wholesomeness is still winning me over.

I also agree with you Twirlie, about A nton. I know I am Agin him, but I can put personal dislike aside and be constructive, and I agree that A nton WASN'T very constructive. I also feel he was desparately trying to channel L en, and there is no need. We have moved on from L en several series ago. He was beginning to pickle my walnuts with his stupid phrases like this and I wasn't particularly sad to see him go. It was time for new blood. So I really don't want to see a return to a L en, I want to see something different. I don't really think A nton is the person for the job, but am prepared to accept that if he drops the L en impression and his more himself he may yet convince me...

saxonsiren wrote: Caroline I feel thinks and dances with her Actors mind..Its as if she is happy to get into a Character for the dance, to project that character re facial expression and voice ( in VT training clips) act out how character will dance YET doesn't embrace the actual dance? Once music stops I half expect " Ok, thats a wrap everyone take 5"  from the producer

It was YOU Sax!!! I feel this sums up best what is lacking with Caroline. You've really hit the nail on the head. Bill is the opposite (I think Tango said this) - he actually DANCES, feels the music and off he goes. They have both put in a lot of leg work but Bill feels the dance and Caroline... doesn't. It's a shame, as she is lovely off the dance floor and she and Johannes are pure joy together. I feel he needs to feed her loads of the tipple of herchoice and take her to a gay club and tell her to just let rip!

I've enjoyed reading everyone's comments today.

No great surprise to see that Max was in the dance off - as a dancer he was no worse than others in the middle of the leaderboard but he somehow just didn't project himself well enough. Still not sure whether it was nerves or whether it really wasn't his thing - I think that others like JJ just want it more so I think it was the right decision. I thought A nton might have saved him after he gushed about him earlier - it was also strange that Shirley said she would have saved him - boy does Shirley not rate Maisie!! Its very obvious. I think Maisie danced well but the routine itself was rubbish - completely agree Diamonds about the awful socks! Obviously GBP felt the same!

I was delighted that JJ got the votes - I'm happy for he and Amy to be around for a bit longer, less so Caroline - I thought she may have ended up in the dance off but obviously not.

Totally agree with Fifty's comments about the eventual winner needing to be an all rounder and to be able to master all genres - with that in mind there are a few of them that I want to see out of their comfort zones (not just Caroline) I would like to see some more ballroom from Jamie and Bill for example and something different from Caroline. All in all, given the disruptions that the show is experiencing I think it was a good weekend - apart from the dubious '10' fest.

I thought of you Diamonds when they announced Maisie for the dance off. Ooh, I thought, Diamonds can enjoy Gorka’s socks all over again

I felt for Maisie though. I wasn’t aware that she’s been getting some stick on other sites but I thought someone of her age would take quite a knock from being in the dance off. I don’t believe it was unpopularity, more that people were “saving” their favourites from the bottom four rather than “voting in” their favourites from the top five. She was probably just overlooked.

I did wonder if Max lost votes because of the swearing but as no one here has mentioned it, I suspect it didn't come into play.

I really hope Bill doesn't succumb to self adoration and take things for granted. He seems a little over the top with his somewhat arrogant, devil may care attitude, pretend as it may be. He's very good so far and it may just be me, but there's a lot of hard work left yet.....Clara has jumped up to join the serious contenders it's a wide open race now.

Housewives choice, a role model for the good guys...but watch it mate, there are a lot of bad guys out there too. They don't have swords and pistols now, just mobile phones.

fiftynotout wrote:I thought of you Diamonds when they announced Maisie for the dance off. Ooh, I thought, Diamonds can enjoy Gorka’s socks all over again

In other news, I've been missing Monkseal's blog and have been looking around at others. There are a few good ones out there, but I find this one the most enjoyable and entertaining, and (this week at least) most coincides with my own views (so I would be a fan!) http://strictlycomebitching.blogspot.com/

TANGOLERO wrote:I really hope Bill doesn't succumb to self adoration and take things for granted. He seems a little over the top with his somewhat arrogant, devil may care attitude, pretend as it may be. He's very good so far and it may just be me, but there's a lot of hard work left yet.....Clara has jumped up to join the serious contenders it's a wide open race now.

Housewives choice, a role model for the good guys...but watch it mate, there are a lot of bad guys out there too.  They don't have swords and pistols now, just mobile phones.

I'm not getting arrogant, just slightly weary that he hasn't always been taken seriously just because he is a comedian. This is easing up a little thankfully, but I still think he is a little wary of it. Wary of that and of his personal life being invaded for the sake of the show (eg Nans, wives, offspring, dogs, yukka plants...) It is notable that his couple's choice intro VT didn't feature any of those potential heartstring-tuggers, and he very much tried to brush off Claudia's comments about his son being proud of him. I think that could have been construed as arrogant and devil may care, but I think he is just intensely private (imagine the producers' chagrin!) Contrary to being devil may care, I think he cares very, very much indeed and works intensely hard. It certainly comes across that way on ITT interviews.

I want you to be right and me wrong D&P, I really do, because I've championed Bill so far and would like him to win on dance ability. Of the contenders he is the most natural dancer for me, and that's what matters in the end, or should. I don't watch much T.V these days, and ITT never, and maybe I'm out of touch with all the baubles the producers overload the Christmas tree with. Be strong Bill but most of all, be yourself. .

fiftynotout wrote:I thought of you Diamonds when they announced Maisie for the dance off. Ooh, I thought, Diamonds can enjoy Gorka’s socks all over again

I felt for Maisie though.  I wasn’t aware that she’s been getting some stick on other sites but I thought someone of her age would take quite a knock from being in the dance off.  I don’t believe it was unpopularity, more that people were “saving” their favourites from the bottom four rather than “voting in” their favourites from the top five.  She was probably just overlooked.

Yes I think you are right Fifty - it was very much that sort of week I think. Anyway, time will tell whether it was just an anomaly (and in past years we've seen a lot of eventual finalists have an off week due to an unpopular routine that lands them randomly in the dance off) or whether she doesn't really have the popular vote and will become a 'serial dance-off girl' - that wouldn't be good situation as it just means that anybody up against her will go out - I'd quite like another couple of weeks of wide open dance offs but I'm conscious that we have a shorter series this time round - I think they are on the half-way mark now?

Interesting what you said about Max and the swearing B4P - that did cross my mind although I completely missed it and haven't a clue what he said - it was only when T ess mentioned it that I realized anything had happened.

On the subject of Bill - I was quite surprised when I heard he was doing the show in the first place. I think that he comes from such a totally different world than that of reality TV shows (more Glastonbury than Elstree - a persona he has never lost) and he is just trying to be all about the dancing and the challenge which is what I suppose it should be and it is quite refreshing to find a celeb who isn't all about the self-publicity and wheeling out the Nans/Dogs etc but I think it might slightly make him come across a bit stand-offish and guarded in interview situations - like the conversation with C laudia about his son. I think that with some comedians they are so totally different when off stage and not 'in their act' and he would appear to be one of them rather than the 'cheeky chappy' sort - if that makes sense.

Twirlie wrote:I did wonder if Max lost votes because of the swearing but as no one here has mentioned it, I suspect it didn't come into play.

I had no idea what Tess was talking about when she apologised. We had to ask Mr Google and then, when we played it back at the relevant moment, we still couldn’t hear what he said...

fiftynotout wrote:

I had no idea what Tess was talking about when she apologised.  We had to ask Mr Google and then, when we played it back at the relevant moment, we still couldn’t hear what he said...

It was quite naughty for that time of the evening in a family show... It was almost "fecking get in"... I didn't hear it at the time either, but it was all over twitter with his mike turned up so it was very clear indeed..

Yes I can imagine...............

I am not sure how much strictly Bill has actually seen. Sure he said he is usually in Australia this time of year. So perhaps he doesn’t realise Nans, children and now Princes are needed to promote your cause! Don’t do dog or girlfriend as it didn’t work for Max

TANGOLERO wrote:...

I'm not actually quoting any thing Tango, I just wanted to say that I love your new avatar. Beautiful.

Thanks Twirlie...Just one of my own sketches of Jane Austen scenes. Darcy has had long enough. George Knightley is the ultimate gentleman.

"With whom will you dance?" asked Knightley.
"With you, if you'll ask me. Will you?" , said Emma.

TANGOLERO wrote:Thanks Twirlie...Just one of my own sketches of Jane Austen scenes. Darcy has had long enough. George Knightley is the ultimate gentleman.

"With whom will you dance?" asked Knightley.
"With you, if you'll ask me. Will you?" , said Emma.

So you're a Jane Austen aficionado. Sense and Sensibility is at to top of the list on my Kindle at the moment!

Twirlie wrote:

So you're a Jane Austen aficionado. Sense and Sensibility is at to top of the list on my Kindle at the moment!

Very much so Twirlie, not to deter from this Strictly thread,but she's my favourite fiction author and I know all her works very well.( I have them all) Highly intelligent Lady, humourist and a walking historical diary of Georgian upper middle class life.